The Cupcake - Up pitches

Hi,

I have a trip down The Cupcake planned in a few weeks and am wondering how to tackle the up pitches.

Limbo pitch seems straightforward to bypass anyway, but can anyone tell me how Hubert Carstairs? go? Are there insitu ropes or are the pitches free-climbable?

Thanks

Andy
 

A_Northerner

Active member
Limbo can be bypassed or free-climbed and rigged.

Hubert Carstairs was pre-rigged when I went a Few months ago and I can't really see how it would be free-climbed.
 

mikem

Well-known member
The Topo suggests a slim caver for limbo as no rope left there, but does not offer any alternative to the other pitch being pre-rigged...

Mike
 

Simon Wilson

New member
There are many fixed aids in caves in the North but they will not appear on CNCC topos or descriptions. The reason for this is that other than resin anchors the CNCC do not install fixed aids nor do they maintain nor endorse any in any way whatsoever. They do not appear on topos because if they did, the CNCC might be seen to be endorsing them.

There are some very good fixed ropes in Cupcake.
 

Alex

Well-known member
I believe (though I am not exactly clear on this) that when the cave was searched recently a through trip was possible meaning that the up pitches would have already been rigged from going in via the cupcake entrance.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
They do not appear on topos because if they did, the CNCC might be seen to be endorsing them.

Rockfax (and every other climbing guidebook publisher) will be in trouble... :p

Some of them even describe pegs :O
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
mikem said:
They aren't governing bodies...

Mike

The BMC is a governing body and publish guidebooks detailing all the sketchy and exciting relics of the past: pegs, aid bolts etc...

Personally I've never understood why caving feels the need to accept a greater duty of care over anchors than necessary.

(Also, I didn't realise the CNCC has special legal status :p )
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
Andrew, There is a great difference do you not think?

From the tiny bit of Trad my mate has "forced" me to do, I wouldn't trust a peg that an unknown other has placed. I wouldn't trust a stuck nut.
There may be a very good reason why it's become stuck!

Maybe the BMC endorsed "rockfax" does include some of these things. But don't forget that the Northern caves book also includes spits where they are still in use.
It is clear that the situations are pretty much the same. You can trust what you like, but the official line from regional councils will always be "we can't vouch for that, make your own mind up".
 

droid

Active member
Wasn't there a comment in the earlier Dales guidebooks along the lines of: 'This book is for the guidance of the wise rather that the obeyance of fools'.

Mention of a belay point doesn't tell anyone to use it.

I know exactly where andrewmc is coming from having seen and used some of the gear at Gogarth?. ;)
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
alastairgott said:
You can trust what you like, but the official line from regional councils will always be "we can't vouch for that, make your own mind up".

Absolutely - but the idea that regional councils can't say that things exist (whether they be spits, bolts, squeezes) exist because they would be adopting a duty of care over them is just silly. Personally I would prefer that all the bolts/anchors were on the topos, appropriately marked as 'non-adopted' or whatever. That way:
a) you would know which were the 'adopted' and which weren't (I know it's normally pretty obvious), and
b) you wouldn't have people clipping every anchor when you lend them a topo!

If that were true, then they would be in trouble just describing caves - someone might think they were sensible things to go down! :O

Information about should not be considered legally dangerous.
 
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