Caving club or learning from training center

cap n chris

Well-known member
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!  :)

Via club: Pros = Cheap'ish, but still probably *?50+; Cons = date/time to suit them if available at all, could be incorrect/out of date/incomplete
Via instructor/centre: Pros = reliable, times to suit you on demand as you wish, equipment provided; Cons = ?probably more money

Best? - you get what you pay for, imo.

http://www.caveinstructor.org.uk/instructors

* Because the club will expect you to join them + BCA and probably provide your own gear, if not at first then certainly pretty promptly, especially if you're looking to do trips involving expensive metalwork/harness etc..
 
Without wishing to infuriate Cap'n'Chris who is a caving instructor and a very good one...the traditional route into caving for the vast majority of active cavers is through the club route...
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
No infuriation here. Just answering the question, albeit as I read it!...  :)

Bearing in mind that the traditional route may very well not be the best route,... but I guess it depends what the "learning" is supposed to entail. Learning to become a caver over the long term?... yes, definitely a club. Wanting to fast-track learn what caving is like on your own terms? - a centre/instructor.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
And when you have been trained professionally? Join a club, of course. But be warned, most club members I know wouldn't take kindly to a newbie informing everyone on  a regular basis what their instructor taught them....  ;)
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
And when you have been trained professionally? Join a club, of course.

... which is what I suggest to trainees!  (y)  The choice of club being determined by whether they want to go caving, drinking, or sofa-reclining. Just kidding! - most clubs actually do lots of great caving, some of which is real, rather than anecdotal.
 

zomjon

Member
There are a lot of commercial operations and instructors out there, but as Jason has mentioned, clubs can provide an excellent education at the same time as the social side of things. Personally I took the club route many moons ago and I must admit, all of my caving mates either took that route or learnt from an experienced individual. Contact a local club to yourself and see what they can offer.
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Peter Burgess said:
But be warned, most club members I know wouldn't take kindly to a newbie informing everyone on  a regular basis what their instructor taught them....  ;)

Free training being offered by upstarts does tend to grate on dinosaurs, so I've heard.  ;)
 

ah147

New member
I learnt via friends and reading books/the internet and practising in a tree slowly and carefully. I've taught myself to do lots of things this way from bigwall rock climbing through skiing all the way to sailing. It works for me.

I've recently convinced my girlfriend and two other friends to sign up to a club. My girlfriend and ond of them I'm she's this will be the best way to learn as they're quite quick on the uptake and are normally able to filter out good information from bad.

The third? I honestly think a course would of suited him best for reasons I can't explain very well unfortunately.


The question is do you fit into the first two groups I described? If not, the course is probably better for you.

As an aside, no matter what if recommend joining a club. I love mine.


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robjones

New member
ah147 said:
I learnt via friends and reading books/the internet and practising in a tree slowly and carefully. I've taught myself to do lots of things this way from bigwall rock climbing through skiing all the way to sailing. It works for me.

In a tree? Skiing?  :eek:    Sailing?  :eek: :eek:  Might work for you...  :-\

 

cap n chris

Well-known member
ah147 said:
I learnt via friends and reading books/the internet

There are some quite dire/scary/plain wrong techniques described/pictured in books (old and - shock! - new) which might easily be literally taken as read (see what I did there?); knowing the good from bad, as a newbie, won't be possible. Hence the benefit of receiving mentoring from someone who knows their stuff. Generally, though, if you read/view a significant wide range of sources you should get a good spectrum of knowledge - but,.... and it is a but which is reinforced by most of the technical sheets accompanying equipment.... professional training is always recommended, first and foremost (by "professional" I think the gist is someone who actually knows what they're on about rather than someone who just re-iterates something someone told them once who was told by someone else etc. ad nauseam, like a hallowed shibboleth).
 

ah147

New member
Rob replace with suitable training environment :p Pendant for pedantry is in the post :D

Chris, couldn't agree more with your point about a wide range of influential material being beneficial and essential when teaching yourself. I wouldn't advocate that method to someone who it doesn't work for, however, it does work for me, so it must work for some others I'd presume. The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

The point of my post was one training method isn't the best for everyone!


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ah147

New member
Should also point out, certain activities, like cave diving, I couldn't find a suitably wide ranging selection of material and I'm currently involved in a mentoring scheme so I can learn more, and am contemplating a course.


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Gollum

Member
I would suggest YSS if you live Yorkshire way. They have got a brand new SRT training wall and regular try caving sessions. They also have a vast amount of very experienced covers and a number of BCA instructors within their membership.
 

TheBitterEnd

Well-known member
Gollum just beat me to it but

Join a club, get some practice under your belt and then if you feel you want to hone your skills or get a second opinion take a course. Like all skills it's mainly practice and experience.

 

cap n chris

Well-known member
T pot 2 said:
MMMMMMM !!!  Who trained the trainers ?

In most instances I would say BCA Training Panel and associated syllabus/scheme(s) which, if memory serves, is a distillation of over 200 caver years'* experience, ongoing. Some will also have been trained by industry manufacturers, too, and other specialist providers.


* From people who may be caving 250-500 times/year.
 
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