Nicola/hey phones

christine

Active member
Hi

I know I'll probably run into super useful people at the weekend....but just incase they are unable to help...

I'm in need of borrowing (ideally purchasing) a Nicola phone (or hey phone) for a dive team who are operating beyond quite long and deep sumps. Our trip heads out at the end of August.

In the past I've used the old fashioned hey phone (grunter phone) which worked ok but I get the feeling that it is a little outdated now and a bit clumsy to dive through 2km of sump.
I've pinged an email to Dave Gibson to see if he can give me any pointers - but I don't have a contact for Graham Naylor.

I've explained to the team (mainly Dutch) that one does not simply buy a Nicola phone off the shelf and they are pretty much made to order for rescue teams (at least, that is my understanding - I'm happy to be corrected!).
I'm aware of plenty of groups who are able to source them for radio locations like ours and exploratory projects, so it must be possible to source them somewhere.

The team is fortunate that money is far less of an issue than technological know how. I certainly couldn't build one of these, but will need to find someone who can.

If anyone thinks they will be able to offer some assistance, please drop me a PM.

Chris
 

Fred

Member
Christine,

If money is not the object a commercial off the shelf (-ish) solution is available in the Cave-Link units made by Felix Ziegler in Switzerland.
(cavelink.com)

I've seen one in the UK and was pretty impressed - their completely text based and while this might seem clunky it has the bonus that all messages are stored in the units and no one has to listening all the time/strict time schedules adhered to. The text system also means battery life is phenomenal in comparison to voice systems i.e. at least a month for most people. Once you've posted a message the unit will keep trying to send it until successful or you delete it - a couple of leds show the status and whether it is transmitting or receiving a message.

The aerials are just like the Nicola/Heyphone i.e. through the earth and adjustable (basically long wires to earthing points).

I've said off the shelf-ish above as I know Felix only make the units up in batches so may not have stock immediately but I know he's making the next batch in April.

I've also seen a link and for a Russian  system (xferra.com) purported to offer a "mobile" solution underground with a snazzy looking tube like aerial about 800mm long. No knowledge of these units but there are very expensive, 2000 euros each I think.

Good luck to your Dutch friends (had some good times a few years back with some Dutch cavers in France and Spain)
 

sambo

New member
We used the cave link last weekend on a practice and they worked really well. I had minimal knowledge of how to work the unit and yet managed to work out how to send messages almost immediately. We also found that the unit worked even when one of the antenna cables had been coiled up! 

I would definitely try to get your hands on one of these units as they work brilliantly and are very compact.


Sam
 

christine

Active member
Fred - Sambo ...

Many thanks.
As we speak, my Dutch mate is speaking to Perdo Ballordi - a Swiss who has been playing with this very system.
He can probably get us one for the trip as he is something to do with the cave rescue out there - but I'll speed up the process a little if there is a batch being made in April...
Thanks for the tip off!

Chris
 

Fred

Member
Benfool,

I think there are about a thousand Euros per end but as they're from Switzerland I don't know what the VAT position would be.

As Sambo says these units are starting to be bought by a few of the UK Cave rescue teams so if you have a contact might be able to get to play with a set that way.


 

christine

Active member
Update: We have two cavelink systems coming over from Switzerland with Pedro.

Not sure if you can radio-locate with them? In theory I would imagine you could...does anyone know?

Chris
 

kdxn

New member
Unknown.

It would be an interesting experiment whether the underground unit could cycle through several different length messages or a GPS-like pseudo-code and then four or more surface units which are time synced using GPS signals logs the arrival times of the messages from underground. Four units should be able to calculate the 3D position and the time offset of the underground receiver similar to how a GPS receiver works with four satellites.

Theoretically, this should provide a 3D positioning capability. Key will probably be firmware modifications and syncing the surface units to GPS receiver time signals and having accurate positions and elevations for all the surface units.

How well it will work in fractured rock with lots of water conduits will be interesting.
Five or more surface receivers will provide redundancy.

Maybe suggest it to the cave-link people ?
They may have already tried it or discarded the possibility because of hardware limitations/too much noise.
 

kdxn

New member
Rich, not very, having been fleeced in recent years of a US$50,000 caving research grant that was awarded to me.

The surface GPS units do not have to be very expensive to provide the synchronised timing signal.

As to the expensive dGPS units and software you are alluding to for accurate positions.

I own one Leica SR530 unit and that is all you need to collect data which can then be processed using RTKPost (Open source freeware) with OS RINEX base station data (free on the web). The RTKPost output has to be put through Excel and then a free OS utility to produce OSGB OSND co-ordinates and elevations.

The SR530 I have is now 16 years old but is still capable of a few cm accuracy. I have seen these units on eBay for as little as a few hundred pounds. The new GG surface model and entrance positions have been determined using the SR530 and the above method using the OS base station at Giggleswick. Involved many days of walking the fells and getting dizzy walking around and down into every shakehole.
 
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