On right now!

Excellent programme, can't wait until tomorrows final episode. Oh and as for the final question on the show, its gotta be the Unknown every time

Slug said:

Excellent programme, can't wait until tomorrows final episode. Oh and as for the final question on the show, its gotta be the Unknown every time

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URLs for any of this?

Yeah, yeah

it looked amazing BUT their ropework STINKS,

did you fail to notice that they had 2 people ON THE SAME SET OF ROPES TOGETHER.

IRTTA rigged ballsedup by the beeb.

let me at it with a propa sports rig and only ONE person at a time on the rope.

I liked the bit wher they "are faced with a choice of whether to go back up the wet ropes or down into the unknown"

The option of shouting down to the cameraman and ask him whats down there seems to have not occured to them 


...and yes WTF sort of cock up ropework was that, seemed to have shunts on adjacent ropes. Nice when the guy gets off the other rope, it shoots up 5m and hangs the other guy on his shunt....at least thats what it looked like, but what a mess anyway. I can see why they were terrified........jessies

The ropes were arranged as you've pointed out. I've seen it taught/used, but not for a long time (been off the ropes for donkeys, thank the Lord). I did have it mind that things had changed and it was all i'Ds and Rockers now? Anyway, no real harm done and it was quite a big hole the pair had to descend... fair play to them.

Stunning program, can't wait to see the final part.

I am sure that one or both of them said that they had never free-hung like that before - probably not the bst place to do it the first time?

Also - two people abbing together on two ropes and using TRT...
Is each using the other's ropes for their shunt?

A very odd way to do it.

Also, didn't notice any sort of chest rig - what if they go upside down.

But a seriously cool place - something to add to my list of things to do before I die!

The bats were incredible - and watching that guy climb the bamboo pole after bird's nests was impressive.
Looks like bare feet are more grippy than wellies - must try that some time in Swildon's - so if yuo meet a barefoot guy carrying a long pole that'll be me!

I couldn't make out if each person was attached to both ropes
or a rope each.
It did look messy.
BUT VERY ECITING

Well, I must admit that I wasn't looking too closely but as Tim Fogg seems to have been involved I doubt there was much wrong with the rigging/ropework, as he's an IRATA assessor who's explored more caves than there are geeks on this forum!  I imagine that each person was abseiling on separate ropes (bit tricky to load/descend otherwise!), so can't see what the fuss is about.  As the entire expedition probably falls under some sort of professional remit there was probably little choice but to use the whole twin rope thing.  Having two people using the same set up isn't that unusual in certain applications.  It's not nearly as sketchy as tandem-roping anyway. 

Didn't see the programme, but I agree with Joel. I would be amazed to find that Tim had done anything stupid in such circumstances.

It looked like each was on a rope and using the other persons rope for a shunt.

Problem with this is "spinning" of the bottom person, thus tieing up the top person.

Having both people on the hang at the same time was IMHO an unnecessary camera stunt, when not constrained by time or light. Not a place to be messing around with a rescue rig if they ended up in rope spaghetti....  Reckon they also had a third person on there (the cameraman in the last shot)

Impressive stuff, but the memory I'll take away from the programme was the whine of chain saws in the distance.  Incredibly sad and it took away the wow factor for me.

Well said Joel...robbie

With the exception of the usual crap spouted by the narrator good prog. Using companions rope with a shunt for extra protection would seem awkward for all us SRT kings but remember these people are first timers on a fcuking big hole so you can't blame Tim for wanting them to have a little protection imagin trying to lifeline them !!!!! that would be 4 ropes

racingsnake said:

With the exception of the usual crap spouted by the narrator good prog. Using companions rope with a shunt for extra protection would seem awkward for all us SRT kings but remember these people are first timers on a fcuking big hole so you can't blame Tim for wanting them to have a little protection imagin trying to lifeline them !!!!! that would be 4 ropes

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It would only be two ropes if they went down one at a time, thats the point... I've done the "two on a hang" thing many times, but I know (!?) what I'm doing. If these were TRULY novices and  then

a) A 100m+ hang to an unknown landing is foolhardy
b) Two of them on the hang is unnecessary and foolhardy

One should have one guy on the hang, and maybe a second rope down in case you have to go and sort them out.....

Consider a rock comes off and knock out the lower of the two guys....just what are you going to do.....the second novice then makes that a much bigger problem.

Consider the top novice goes a bit too far down, and his shunt "locks". Realeasing it with the other rope tensioned by the lower person is gonna be hard

"Double line" safety can be obtained easier by simply putting a double rope down, using a descender that takes a double rope (eg a rack) and having your shunt in hand on the double rope ABOVE the descender (Just like in the pertzl manual!!).

Advantages are

a) No risk of "spinning" twisting the two sepearated rope
b) Double/Double safety The ab is on both ropes AND the safety device is on both ropes
c) The person isn't leaning out in an awkward position trying to work the shunt down on an untensioned rope....tiring for a novice and means a lot longer in the harness.


All told this looked like rope silliness to me, with making good footage taking priority over sensible safety measures.

Joel Corrigan said:

Well, I must admit that I wasn't looking too closely but as Tim Fogg seems to have been involved I doubt there was much wrong with the rigging/ropework, as he's an IRATA assessor who's explored more caves than there are geeks on this forum!  I imagine that each person was abseiling on separate ropes (bit tricky to load/descend otherwise!), so can't see what the fuss is about.  As the entire expedition probably falls under some sort of professional remit there was probably little choice but to use the whole twin rope thing.  Having two people using the same set up isn't that unusual in certain applications.  It's not nearly as sketchy as tandem-roping anyway. 

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I wasn't there, but I also didn't see the programme. Sometimes one has to take things on trust. If a highly experienced person was organising things, but there was an impression that things were dodgy, I would suspect that my impressions were wrong, and that the job was done correctly, and not the other way around. If you weren't there, don't knock it.  :chair:

Peter Burgess said:

Joel Corrigan said:

Well, I must admit that I wasn't looking too closely but as Tim Fogg seems to have been involved I doubt there was much wrong with the rigging/ropework, as he's an IRATA assessor who's explored more caves than there are geeks on this forum!  I imagine that each person was abseiling on separate ropes (bit tricky to load/descend otherwise!), so can't see what the fuss is about.  As the entire expedition probably falls under some sort of professional remit there was probably little choice but to use the whole twin rope thing.  Having two people using the same set up isn't that unusual in certain applications.  It's not nearly as sketchy as tandem-roping anyway. 

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I wasn't there, but I also didn't see the programme. Sometimes one has to take things on trust. If a highly experienced person was organising things, but there was an impression that things were dodgy, I would suspect that my impressions were wrong, and that the job was done correctly, and not the other way around. If you weren't there, don't knock it.  :chair:

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Well I can look at something and express an view based on what I see being sufficient to form an opinion. I'm also not the only person to comment on the bizarre ropework.

Two people on a pitch is ALWAYS going to be more hazardous that one. Can anyone disagree with that?
Two novices on a pitch is ALWAYS more hazardous that one.

Therefore risks were not minimized...QED.....a three second risk assesment should have reached that conclusion.

If I were taking a party to a big hole in the jungle a long way from rescue then I would make damn sure they were PROFICIENT in vertical techniques before they ever left the UK. This is not the place to learn....

And if you think having qualified people on a TV shoot means safety, then think back to how the bungey jump guy ended up dead on the Noel Edmonds show....

As I said, I wasn't there, and can make no informed judgement.

Is an excellent programme although annoying that the beeb did their usual thing of look what we found?
Solo was found a few years ago on a previous mulu expedition and the guy in the helicopter was going on about it as if he had found it. I think credit is due to the people who actually found it.

As for the rope work if you had listerned to the programme the Camera woman was experienced with rope work and the man was a moutaineer. On a free hanging pitch like solo there is little chance once over the top that you going to knock anything on the person. It was probably the beeb producer who requested they went down together though.

Can't wait i'm going out there in just over a week.