Best wetsuit for caving?

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Having had a sort out of a load of gear during the lockdown, I've decided I need a new wetsuit for wet caving trips. I'm interested in current thinking about the best option, because in my opinion a lot of the wetsuits folk buy for caving these days are not very well designed (for caving). The photo with this post is the end of a leg of a wetsuit that shows three features which are poor but typical of the bad design of many suits these days. (I'm not going to mention the make because that company's products are mainly very good and I don't want to give the wrong impression.)

1. a seam at 90 degrees to the long axis, which allows little stretch, so it's a nightmare to get over the foot when dressing - especially in 70 mph horizontal rain.

2. seam construction incorporating a fabric tape and sewn straight through the neoprene in four rows. That's four rows of holes which allows very efficient circulation of cold water.

3. double lined neoprene, which is far colder than the single lined variety (when the lining on the latter is on the inside). This video I came across confirmed my strong suspicions that a nylon lining on the outside traps water, the evaporation of which then causes cooling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yoW-151mVI  Also, as it's the nylon covering the neoprene which shrinks and makes the suit stiffen, a double lined suit will always be far more uncomfortable than a single lined equivalent (which is not exactly ideal for a very active and endurance pastime such as caving).

Anyway, I really want a one piece suit - possibly made to measure (as a giraffe like me often finds standard sizes aren't the best fit). I'm particularly interested in forum members' views on a back zip as opposed to a front zip. (A back zip is far less convenient for opening when ventilation is needed in dry, sweaty passages but as one's chest is more often in the water in wet crawls than one's back, maybe the lack of leakage in the chest area could be an advantage for a caver?)

Anyone got any recommendations where I can buy a good suit, preferably made of very stretchy neoprene? Don't mind paying top dollar as long as it does the job.

What do folk reckon is the optimum neoprene thickness?

Thanks, to anyone who can help.
 

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tamarmole

Active member
OK..... advising JC on  wetsuits is rather like advising Jimi Hendrix about guitars....... takes deep breath.  This is my take:

In terms of thickness I like 3mm neoprene, I find anything thicker too stiff and, except when you are fully immersed, too hot.

I am a big fan of front zips, much easier to ventilate in dry passage.

I've never gone down the new wetsuit route as they  get trashed fairly quickly.  My caving wetsuits tend to come from Ebay.  My current wetsuit comprised the bottom half of a one piece O Neil 3mm watersports wetsuit and a no name 1980s 4mm jacket complete with tenex fastners.  Reinforcing wear points with extra neoprene is a good thing.  A few diy skills go a long way.

Not too worried about seam stitching holes as larger holes are going to appear anyway.  That said I recently sealed the seams of my tent with a proprietary seam sealant (forget which)which might go some way to ameliorate the problem.

On the stiffness front I find washing the wetsuit with lots of fabric softener works wonders.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I'm no wetsuit expert and only have my very limited experience to go on, but the surfing suit I recently bought from Decathlon definitely doesn't have the 90? stitching on the ankles (though it has a less stretchy 'tightening' strip fixed on), and the cuffs have diagonal stitching about 120cm up. It's only half-stitched and the inside teams are taped. And I believe it's only single-lined. It's 4mm, but is very stretchy, especially the side panels under the arms, which are 3mm. The fastening is the 'over the head' chest zip, which is a bit weird and rather claustrophobic initially, as it looks far too small to get into, but you just unroll it inside-out until you get to the legs and then pull it back up and over. Getting it off when wet is considerably more difficult, but then I guess they all are.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/m-sws900cw-4-3-id_8504145.html

I did a bit of reading up on this suit and it had pretty good ratings for the price, compared to premium brands. The irony is I only got to use it once (before work and then the lockdown interrupted things), in Peak Cavern, but it was a joy to be able to dig in liquid mud without feeling it - and then wash off in Buxton Water Sump by just laying in the water and wallowing like a hippo with a brush instead of the usual shivering half-hearted effort. I still had my oversuit on top, I should point out - I'm not digging in Nixon's Aven unprotected as it's a bit raspy in places! I still consider it money well-spent, even though it's just sat in a cupboard for the foreseeable future.
 

cavemanmike

Active member
I've got a one piece warmbac that I get on very well with (10 years ish).
I have a friend who also has a warmbac who is a 6ft 6 lanky streak of p**** and has no problem with it.
Padded shoulders and knees
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks pwhole - that looks interesting. (And you're tall, like me, so a fair chance it might fit.)
Doesn't that zip on one shoulder cause discomfort when under the strap of a heavy tacklebag?

Cavemanlike - whats the seam construction on your Warmbac?
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
pwhole - what size did you get? The sizing chart I get only seems to refer to chest size.

Also, isn't the lining on the outside? (It looks like it in the pictures.) In which case, does the inside have a smooth neoprene skin rather than nylon?
 

ahinde

New member
I have a warmbac one piece double lined suit that has most of the short-comings you mentioned Pitlamp. However, it is pretty indestructible in the leisurely type of caving I can manage.  When new 9 years ago it was a poor fit, but I have grown into it in an alarming way recently. One of the serious problems with the smooth skin exterior suit for caving is that in muddy conditions you slip down a mud slope like a live mackerel and nobody can catch you. On the downside the twin lined type takes ages to clean mud off afterwards. A fell runners cag over the wetsuit makes all the difference if you are holding the boring end of a 25m survey tape in a wind tunnel/stream for an hour.( Thanks for that Lugger! , I know its a privilege really.)Or on the journey back across the fell.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Ah - that was one issue actually - I initially ordered the 'Large', as I'm a Large in everything, and I matched the specified dimensions exactly. - 'muscular' build I guess you'd call it, and I don't have a fat belly. However, when I tried it on, it was definitely too small, to a level that was potentially damaging to the suit. So I ended up with an Extra Large, especially factoring in a small amount of shrinkage over time, and that feels fine. I'm not as tall as you though, which may be an issue. Interesting that the size dropdown has 'MT ' and 'LT' (medium tall and large tall), but the 'Find your size' link doesn't!

The inside is definitely lined on the main body so maybe it is double-lined - it didn't look like it was on the outside, but as I mentioned, I'm no expert - it's my first one. I didn't carry any heavy bags on my single trip sadly, so couldn't really comment, but the zip is quite short, so the toggle may be just out of the way for bag straps. Oh god, I can see how this afternoon is going to end up...
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Love that description of a fast descent of a mud slope ahinde - I know exactly what you mean!
 

Fulk

Well-known member
I bought a surfing wetsuit with a zip up the back in an end-of-season sale; the back zip pissed me off so much that I contacted Warmbac and asked if they would be prepared to take out the zip, stitch up the back and install a zip in the front. Even though the wetsuit was not one of theirs they undertook to do the work and, in fact, did an excellent job. I wouldn?t get a zip-up-the-back wetsuit for caving.

At 3 mm thick, I found it a bit cold, though.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks Fulk - I'd also wondered about the back zip tape getting caught up on projections in awkward squeezes.

pwhole - I've got to ask this question - how you you empty your bladder in yours? I guess the only option is a half undress? Not keen on that in a cold cave. Gul apparently do a suit which solves this problem - anyone tried this system?  https://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/2020-gul-code-zero-43mm-back-zip-relief-system-sailing-wetsuit-jet-cz1201-p-21020.html
 

topcat

Active member
I use a modern surfing wetsuit and have fitted a dry suit Pee zip myself for ,well, peeing :)

Of course I have to wear an over suit too, but caving specific wetsuits seen to be about three decades behind surfing wetsuit s in terms of material, variable thickness and 3D cut.

Mine is super stretchy and has to be because you get into it through the neck opening.  Hence the need for a P zip.

I just suffer the warmth in the dry bits knowing I'm well sorted for the wet bits.

Very comfortable in crawls as no big zip front or back.  I once had a front zipper in a neo fleece suit drop down a bit to my sternum and suffered greatly for it in 'not the birthday sqeeze'......bruised for weeks.  Zips are crap anyway, they let the water in big time. (stitch lines are small fry in comparison), unless they are from a drysuit like my P zip.

So, surf shop, or something like the Wetsuit Outlet for on line.I

I have an additional 3mm vest which i use to supplement the 5/4/3 mm wetsuit.  This adds 6mm to your girth and was probably the reason for getting stuck in the Black Book of Death Cow Pot route.....thickness = warmth bit might also = failed cave !
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
topcat said:
caving specific wetsuits seen to be about three decades behind surfing wetsuit s in terms of material, variable thickness and 3D cut.

Thanks for your contribution; the bit above beautifully summarises what it took me a lot more words to try to explain in the first post.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
Thanks Fulk - I'd also wondered about the back zip tape getting caught up on projections in awkward squeezes.

pwhole - I've got to ask this question - how you you empty your bladder in yours? I guess the only option is a half undress? Not keen on that in a cold cave. Gul apparently do a suit which solves this problem - anyone tried this system?  https://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/2020-gul-code-zero-43mm-back-zip-relief-system-sailing-wetsuit-jet-cz1201-p-21020.html

Hahah - I didn't! I made sure I went before I set off, but I must admit I was prepared to just pee into it if necessary given there's not really even room to kneel in there. I can't work out how the P-Eazy thing on that suit works from the photo, but I can't imagine it lets too much water in or they wouldn't sell any.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Yeah - my thoughts exactly. I wonder if it works with 2 or 3 sheets of thin, overlapping neoprene and some Velcro. Anyone out there got one?

Topcat - how do you go on when that drysuit zip gets gritty? From my experience of drysuit zips they don't take kindly to being coated in mud & sand etc.
 

Mr Mike

Active member
I've got a 4mm Warmbac that was a tailored fit (happened to be in somerset and popped in for a measure up) as my legs v torso are a bit odder than normal ratios. Great suit and still in it after 15 years + . Always used with oversuit. Zip on front.
 

topcat

Active member
Pitlamp said:
Yeah - my thoughts exactly. I wonder if it works with 2 or 3 sheets of thin, overlapping neoprene and some Velcro. Anyone out there got one?

Topcat - how do you go on when that drysuit zip gets gritty? From my experience of drysuit zips they don't take kindly to being coated in mud & sand etc.

There are two types of dry zips : the brass ones that look kind of like conventional zips, and those that are better shielded and look like a black plastic strip when closed. Mine is the latter type, and in any case under the over suit.  And in any case, surely wetsuit = wet cave; there must be somewhere to wash it clean??
 

Duncan Price

Active member
I can recommend Decathlon wetsuits - I have a surfing wetsuit from them which I wear under an oversuit for wet trips.  I've even dived 30 m long sumps in it.  I am also a great fan of their one piece hood-attached wetsuits for cave diving.  I have both the 5.5 mm Subea suit (for caving and diving) and the 7.5 mm one (more for diving rather than caving).  Neoprene is really stretchy.  If you are doing anything knarly, wear an oversuit over your wetsuit.
 
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