Hi all,

Having recently done the Croesor Rhosydd through trip, I'm looking for some other suitably epic trips that can match the high standard which that set! Top of my list is Titan, with Gaping Gill coming in close second. Sadly though, t'internet seems sadly unforthcoming with info on Titan, so I thought I'd pop by these forums to see if you fine gents could give me some pointers. All advice very much appreciated.

I'm hearing some confliciting stories on access to Titan. What is the current access arrangement, or lack thereof?

I've heard that it's generally left unrigged. Does anyone have any topos or rigging information that they could point me in the direction of?

The relevant surveys for exiting via Peak Cavern would also come in very handy if anyone knows where to get hold of them.

The digging I have done has revealed the existence of a PDF sheet that gets emailed to "everyone who books Titan". What exactly is meant by "booking" Titan, and does anyone have a copy of this sheet which they could forward to me.

Thanks in advance!

Try the Peak Caving website as a starting point..


And if you're aiming for epic all the time you'll no doubt become quickly disappointed....

The entrance is locked, and keys etc need to be arranged. Although, interestingly, I can't find anything on the www about how to do it. (I know who I'd phone personally to sort it out, but I don't think they'd appreciate them being advertised as the place to sort it out).

DCA access pages are woefull.
HnH webpages (as linked above) don't really give a clue about access arrangements.
TSG website doesn't seem to mention it (despite 99% of peak cavern trips starting and ending at the TSG hut).

Just thought though, your best bet might be to phone HnH and talk to the guys there.

Going from Croesor Rhosydd to Titan is quite a leap isn't it?

I've done C->R though not Titan but I suspect that Titan will be in a different league when it comes to required ropework/SRT knowledge. C->R is just a couple of short abseils.

Apologies if I'm underestimating your level of ability/experience, I'm just erring on the side of caution

Thanks all for your replies! 

bubba said:

Going from Croesor Rhosydd to Titan is quite a leap isn't it?

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Potentially. But this is why I'm asking for advice as well as info. If it turns out to be out of my league then I'll put it off, I'm basically just sounding it out at the moment. But thanks for your concern.

That said, I reckon Titan is realistic. I don't pretend to be anywhere near the most experienced caver but I have a sound knowledge of SRT and ropework, (from a climbing background as well as caving). But I'll reserve judgement until I have some more info to go on... preferably a topo.

its 146m in height! description can be found here http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/caveguides/titan.pdf , don't know whether you've found this website before.

You need to book the key via Nick Williams or Moose. Rigging can be found in Peak Rigging Guide (published by Crewe CPC) available from Hitch n Hike (50m, 80m, 60m ropes). You could get contact no's for either of them via HnH though they both use this forum.

If you plan to do through trip to Peak you need to know the way!!!! If unsure try and get a local guide, there are plenty of folk around at weekends from the area who would be happy to do this given notice and providing they are happy that your team are up to it). There have been groups doing so without prior knowledge getting lost which has resulted in DCRO call outs. Also be mindful that the recently reported collapse in the boulder piles in speedwell has been looked at and is unstable and needs work to make 'safe' so for now maybe an exchange with JH mine might be better option (so you need lots more rope and again the Crewe Rigging Guide).

If you intend to exit via Peak, you need to book with a Peak Key holder and pay the Peak Cavern fee and also complete a Peak indemnity form. Nick Williams is one of the key holders.

And make sure your team CAN do SRT properly - as simple as Titan is for those profficient in SRT it has seen its fair share of call outs and near misses through people getting strung up / bottling it on the Event Horizon and if you are doing this make sure your team can prussick 600ft otherwise there will be some very cold people waiting around for a long time.

J

Sound advice Jim.

C->R is just a couple of short abseils.

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Yeah - and Titan is a couple of long abseils    (OK OK - there are no re-belays in C-R)

Technically, Titan is a piece of piss (going down) so long as you can pass a re-belay (which is the bare minimum anyone claiming to  be SRT proficient should be able to do)
Its a piece of piss going up if you fit enough.

The issues in Titan have always revolved around someone getting hung up on the mid point re-belay and the communication issues that have ensued (its very difficult  to shout and be heard over the water fall in there).
Or
Its people getting lost once they've hit the floor in titan and realised no-one has a clue how to navigate through  17km of cave beyond to get out of Peak Cavern.

so - TBH - it probably worth visiting the area (stay in the TSG) and do a number of trips into the system (starting with a walk in from the Peak entrance) just to familiarise your self with the place. Its really not that straight forward.

SamT said:

...Technically, Titan is a piece of piss (going down) so long as you can pass a re-belay (which is the bare minimum anyone claiming to  be SRT proficient should be able to do)...

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Just a quick note, it's a free-hanging rebelay = more technically involved.

The through trip is fun, but going up Titan is the best way to experience the place. Your going to have to go up Titan at some point to de-rig it anyways. Why not get to know your way about on an in-out Titan trip?

Once you can find the ladder up to Colostomy Crawl it's pretty easy from there on out (so long as Mucky Ducks isn't sumped!  ).

I recommend trying to locate a willing guide, who can offer advice on access to Titan, fee payment / key for Peak, and navigation.

Chris.

Rob said:

Just a quick note, it's a free-hanging rebelay = more technically involved.

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.... and quite exceptionally there will be 75 metres of rope above you at this free-hang, so its likely you may want to stand up on something thats somehow connected to this rebelay when releasing your cowtail 

 

As several have commented, it is very tricky to talk someone through the Titan rebelay if they're having a diasaster, and if you have to wait to be rescued it gets incredibly dull waiting for someone to fetch you.....

The trip is excellent; however I agree with Rob - Titan is best appreciated on the way up (it's actually about as pretty as anywhere I've been, and abseiling past it doesn't give you a long look - looking at the pretties is a great excuse for a break!). If you're in the area, don't just blast through - take your time and have a good look around the Far Sump Extensions and Speedwell side passages - it's all excellent cave. The exchange with JH is also great, and a bit more "balanced" between the two teams.

For tricky navigation with ready retreats, try some of the Easegill classics as well. There are infinite variations to enjoy from the trivial to the near-impossible, and it's easy to do the lesser trips building up to the bigger.

Send your snail mail address and I'll post you a copy of the topo.
RJohnCaveATaolDOTcom

what about the the bolder chock has it stoped moving?

the bolder choke at the botom of titan is prity good just dont test it.

the choke though to the bolderpiles from jh is still very loos and i dont like the amount of fines washing though it. stear well clear (even if dose mean some long cralls though colaostamy to go digging)

but it was open when i last looked (bank holiday monday)

mudmonkey said:

As several have commented, it is very tricky to talk someone through the Titan rebelay if they're having a diasaster, and if you have to wait to be rescued it gets incredibly dull waiting for someone to fetch you.....

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This I can personally vouch for!

Did a Peak/Titan trip the other year; being the last up from the floor and unbeknown to me the bottom of the rope got pinched in the boulders on the floor (yes I did pull the rope up once off the floor - just not enough to overcome all the stretch!), well needless to say when I got to the change over and then put my hand jammer in the rope over the Event Horizon and put my weight on it I was totally stuck with 200ft of rope strech yanking my chest jammer downward and my hand jammer too far above me when I took my weight off it due to the stretch in the rope above .

In a really really wrong but so well right the guy above me whom was waiting for me so he could take the rope and help me de-rig had a MAHOOSIVE knife in his kit bag, so I ended up hanging on my cows tails from the p hangers at the re-belay chopping the rope below me so I could then go up and reverse prussik back down and remove the tat left behind!  had that been a noob or someone whom couldn't think straight due to cold/tiredness I dread to think how it would have turned out!

Had to do Peak in/out on the Sunday to retrieve the damn rope! - colostomy crawl 3 times in one weekend aint fun!

Try changing your chest jammer first, then your foot jammer - works much better!

Yup

...short cowstail to bolt / connector

....croll off lower rope, on upper rope

...while hanging off short cowstail

...transfer hand jammer to upper rope

...prussik until weight comes off cowstail

...REMOVE COWSTAIL (!)

...away you go.

Works for about everything. Once again, Mr Petzl has got it right in his nice, free catalogue!

agreed - cows tail then always croll first on re-belays. Means on free hanging re-belays such as E.H. you can stand in your foot loop to perform the operation.

I'm at a loss as to how you couldn't remove your croll from a taught rope, should be no different. 
Also - I'm at a loss as to how you couldn't reach your hand jammer. Safety leach too long??
Surely standing in your foot loop would bring it back within reach. Failing that, wrap the slack from the top rope  round your foot a few times, or even make a clove hitch round your foot and stand up in it, that should allow you to reach and un-hook your jammer. 

I know, I know.. its easy said from the comfort of my laptop like  :tease:

Of course forgetting your Pantin when passing a rebelay can lead to lots of fun. Especially in a narrow pitch with a tackle bag or 2 to get in the way.