survex help please

martinm

martinm

New member
I've been used to using Compass for Windows for Windows for a good few years, but thought I'd better install Survex to try out as loadsa peeps are using it. I have a few question:-

I installed the latest version of Survex for Windoze (1.2.8, I think), and:-

1. If I click on svxedit, Windoze says it can't find the file to use with it! Is it not an executable? (Moans about svxedit.td or summat.)

2. Loaded the lathkill.3d file into Aven. Cool. Switched to elevation view, then couldn't find a way of exaggerating the vertical view without expanding it horizontally as well. Ie: Zooming in, but retaining the width, as I just want a clearer view of the different height levels of various entrances.

Regards, Survex newbie. (ie: Mel.)
 
graham

graham

New member
mmilner said:
I've been used to using Compass for Windows for Windows for a good few years, but thought I'd better install Survex to try out as loadsa peeps are using it. I have a few question:-

I installed the latest version of Survex for Windoze (1.2.8, I think), and:-
Click to expand...

Yes that is the latest version.

mmilner said:
1. If I click on svxedit, Windoze says it can't find the file to use with it! Is it not an executable? (Moans about svxedit.td or summat.)
Click to expand...

You'd have to ask Ollie or Wookey or someone about why this was set up the way it is, but just ignore svxedit. The simplest way, in Windows, to edit and process your data is to create a new text file and edit it in Notepad. When you name and save the file, save it with the extension .svx instead of .txt that is all. It'll still be editable in Notepad (which remains the de facto "svxedit"). Then highlight the file in File Manager and right click on it. The drop down menu gives these three relevant options: "Open in Notepad" (Yes if you want to edit it) "Open in svxedit" (ignore) and "Process" Hitting the last will, err, process the data and give you three output files: a .3d file which will open in Aven (the Survex viewer) and look pretty. A .log file which gives various statistics and stuff and a .err file. Which has errors in it. If you ONLY get the latter then the data is flawed somewhere and won't process but it should tell you, at least, where the error is.


mmilner said:
2. Loaded the lathkill.3d file into Aven. Cool. Switched to elevation view, then couldn't find a way of exaggerating the vertical view without expanding it horizontally as well. Ie: Zooming in, but retaining the width, as I just want a clearer view of the different height levels of various entrances.
Click to expand...

Umm, not sure what you mean. zoom is zoom, after all.

 
mulucaver

mulucaver

Member
You can't exaggerate the vertical in Survex, just zoom in and rotate and/or pan the view.

I would recommend you install Notepad++ as your text editor.

 
graham

graham

New member
mulucaver said:
You can't exaggerate the vertical in Survex, just zoom in and rotate and/or pan the view.
Click to expand...

I didn't realise that you could in Compass, as it is some years since I have used it.

mulucaver said:
I would recommend you install Notepad++ as your text editor.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Superb program. For any sort of coding work.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
mulucaver said:
You can't exaggerate the vertical in Survex, just zoom in and rotate and/or pan the view.

I would recommend you install Notepad++ as your text editor.
Click to expand...

Already got it Dave, but thanx anyway.  (y) It's not as good as Kate in Linux though...  :sneaky:
 
martinm

martinm

New member
graham said:
mulucaver said:
You can't exaggerate the vertical in Survex, just zoom in and rotate and/or pan the view.
Click to expand...
I didn't realise that you could in Compass, as it is some years since I have used it.
Superb program. For any sort of coding work.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've just tried it again in the compass cave viewer. You can not only colour code the different heights/depths, but also display the elevations and station names. (I know aven can do that too.) Additionally however, the compass cave viewer has an option to change the vertical magnitude so can exaggerate the height/depth changes to make really easy to compare things. The default setting is 1.0 which is normal but for an area the size of the Lathkill setting it to something like 10 would make it easier to see what might be flooded if the suggested works were to go ahead.
 
graham

graham

New member
mmilner said:
graham said:
mulucaver said:
You can't exaggerate the vertical in Survex, just zoom in and rotate and/or pan the view.
Click to expand...
I didn't realise that you could in Compass, as it is some years since I have used it.
Superb program. For any sort of coding work.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've just tried it again in the compass cave viewer. You can not only colour code the different heights/depths, but also display the elevations and station names. (I know aven can do that too.) Additionally however, the compass cave viewer has an option to change the vertical magnitude so can exaggerate the height/depth changes to make really easy to compare things. The default setting is 1.0 which is normal but for an area the size of the Lathkill setting it to something like 10 would make it easier to see what might be flooded if the suggested works were to go ahead.
Click to expand...

I'll ask for one on Therion.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
have spent much of the last 2 days building Survex, Aven, Therion, etc for Linux which is my normal OS. Aven works fine, as does cad3d, will try importing a plt file into Compass tmrw. svxedit also works and is quite useful. I will recheck the Windoze version again later. (Does Notepad++ have syntax highlighting / completion for survex files?)

The only fly in the ointment is Loch, it fails to compile. After some research (yawn) I found a solution to the problem which somebody else had also had. It now fails at a later point, but I'm sure I'll sort it out eventually.

Also sorted out VMWare, so now I can run the Windoze or Linux programs without rebooting.  (y)

(Just thought you'd like to know...)

Regards, Mel.
 
B

Blakethwaite

New member
Cor, what a chew-on. Survex & Aven just work on Windows without the need to re-write the software. Stopped using Linux years ago (Ubuntu Frisky  Frottager or summat) cos nothing worked properly & all the software appeared to be very poor knock-offs of Windows stuff - see The Gimp etc.

But yes, Notepad++ is excellent.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
Blakethwaite said:
Cor, what a chew-on. Survex & Aven just work on Windows without the need to re-write the software. Stopped using Linux years ago (Ubuntu Frisky  Frottager or summat) cos nothing worked properly & all the software appeared to be very poor knock-offs of Windows stuff - see The Gimp etc.
But yes, Notepad++ is excellent.
Click to expand...

Sigh, the only reason they work on Windoze is cos they supply binaries of the programs! I am having to compile stuff from scratch cos they only supply sources.

I have used Linux for 13 years and hate having to use Windows. Everything on my current distro (Mageia) just worked 'out of the box' and Notepad++ isn't a patch on Kate, the KDE project manager. The programs on Linux are much more intuitive to use and I HATE the damn ribbon on all the new MS programs.

The Gimp is fantastic, I use it all the time, much easier to use than Photoshop. I have it installed on Windoze at work and I can do things easier and quicker than our designer can do in Fireworks! Outlook is atrocious these days, I may install Thunderbird instead which is what I normally use.

Anyway, this is about survey software, not about windoze vs Linux.  :sneaky:
 
graham

graham

New member
IMHO The only reason to use Linux is that the US government won't then know which caves you've surveyed, or something. 
scared0016.gif
 
martinm

martinm

New member
mmilner said:
1. If I click on svxedit, Windoze says it can't find the file to use with it! Is it not an executable? (Moans about svxedit.td or summat.)
Click to expand...

Tonight I answered my own question, you just need to install ActiveTcl Community Edition from:-

http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

Then change/create a shortcut to svxedit.tcl and it runs perfectly!  :sneaky:  (Windoze even picks up the Survex icon.) I quite like it actually, though  it's still in beta and hasn't been changed since 2002! I don't know what the purpose of that editwrap.exe program is for, so just ignore it.

I'm sure (maybe) Survex is more versatile.  :-\ But Compass and it's viewer program are much more user friendly, so I will mostly be sticking with those I think.

Just re-added some survey data I'd lost from my main sink area surveys due to a laptop crash a couple of years ago and the viewer plotted it all nicely as it should be.

Dave's plt file of the Lathkill was very useful, I've just been looking at the elevations. See the lathkill thread...
 
graham

graham

New member
mmilner said:
I'm sure (maybe) Survex is more versatile.  :-\ But Compass and it's viewer program are much more user friendly, so I will mostly be sticking with those I think.
Click to expand...

It is far more versatile. It will deal with data in almost any units - we have even in the past defined our own length unit, the 'Steve' - and in just about any form that you care to throw at it.

It deals far more clearly with passage dimension data, as you relate these measurements directly to a station, not a leg. This is unclear in Compass (where, so Garry tells me the LRUDs relate to the 'from' station). But the major problem with Compass is that, no matter what units you enter the data in, it stores lengths as decimal feet. This is a real problem if either you are trying to export a file to something else or manually edit a file that you have screwed up.

I would also disagree that the Compass viewer was more user friendly, but that can simply a matter of opinion.

It is, however, not as well documented as it should be.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
graham said:
But the major problem with Compass is that, no matter what units you enter the data in, it stores lengths as decimal feet. This is a real problem if either you are trying to export a file to something else or manually edit a file that you have screwed up.
Click to expand...

Hmm, so it does! Never looked at the data files before as had no need to, but the data files for Water Icicle Wayne Sheldon recently sent you were done in compass. Can Survex not read in decimal feet then? (Unlikely to have needed to, I guess.)

I will investigate the  passage dimension data issue  more, shortly... meanwhile I will continue to try out aven, etc. as well.
 
graham

graham

New member
Survex can read owt, providing you tell it. No, my problem in this regard is that the figures that Compass saves are not the figures that you input. This can make it hard to identify typos etc. it also means that your raw data is not preserved which is poor in principle. Anyone who tries to match up original survey notes with a text file derived from Compass will get mightily confused.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
graham said:
Survex can read owt, providing you tell it. No, my problem in this regard is that the figures that Compass saves are not the figures that you input. This can make it hard to identify typos etc. it also means that your raw data is not preserved which is poor in principle. Anyone who tries to match up original survey notes with a text file derived from Compass will get mightily confused.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand. However, Compass can produce nice detailed tabulated reports of your input data in the same units as input, so that's what I've always used for checking and when checked, as a paper reference. Like I said, I've never looked at the actual data files before now. Never needed to.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
Hmm, getting to quite like Aven now. Compass cave viewer has one or two options, then Aven is better at doing others. What I need from Aven, etc. now are:-

1. Option to display station elevation on the actual survey and not just in the bottom status bar. Also maybe as a tooltip when a station is hovered over.

2. Option to display 'places' (ie:- entrances/features) in a different colour so they show up amongst all the other stations. Or an option to only display places and not all stations. Will make the survey / map lots clearer.

3. a 'vertical magnification' option to allow height changes to be exaggerated independently of width for clarity.

Guess, I'd better get in touch with the developers then.

Oh, and can you point me in the right direction for telling survex to process other length data formats like that from Compass Graham? Guess it's in the manual somewhere...
 
graham

graham

New member
mmilner said:
Hmm, getting to quite like Aven now. Compass cave viewer has one or two options, then Aven is better at doing others. What I need from Aven, etc. now are:-

1. Option to display station elevation on the actual survey and not just in the bottom status bar. Also maybe as a tooltip when a station is hovered over.
Click to expand...

That isn't there, see below.

mmilner said:
2. Option to display 'places' (ie:- entrances/features) in a different colour so they show up amongst all the other stations. Or an option to only display places and not all stations. Will make the survey / map lots clearer.
Click to expand...

Both entrances (green) and fixed stations (red) can be highlighted separately by hitting the relevant option in the toolbar or from the dropdown.

mmilner said:
3. a 'vertical magnification' option to allow height changes to be exaggerated independently of width for clarity.
Click to expand...

Difficult to see how that would work on a model that is fully rotatable & zoomable from any angle but hey.

mmilner said:
Guess, I'd better get in touch with the developers then.
Click to expand...

Join the mailing list, link available from the web site.

mmilner said:
Oh, and can you point me in the right direction for telling survex to process other length data formats like that from Compass Graham? Guess it's in the manual somewhere...
Click to expand...

Within the relevant survey start and end instructions, probably just before your line defining which order the data is in, put this line:

*UNITS tape feet

The default is metres; the above should work for what you want but can also be used for different units and these can also be defined.

I just went looking to see whether we still had any unique defined units and we don't but it reminds me that we do have Compass data imported into Survex and the Survex model then imported into Therion and also Compass data imported directly into Therion so all sorts of time savers are possible. It just depends what you want to output.
 
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