As a matter of opinion, do people feel it better to have u/g pictures with or without a person in for whatever reason?

Personally I feel a shot is enhanced with a figure in as it lends scale, human interest and usually some colour, but if taking a long exposure (eg on "B" and light painting) then blurring can easily occur. For old mines with artifacts a human in the image can also lend to the atmosphere of an industrial / archaeological environment, while in a cave the absence of a figure can easily remove all concept of scale.
My current camera is only a happy snapper and nothing fancy, but when I can afford to move up to a digi SLR then better shots with more depth of view and a greater variety of options will be open to me..
Anyway, what are your thoughts - people in or out?

Brains said:

As a matter of opinion, do people feel it better to have u/g pictures with or without a person in for whatever reason?

Personally I feel a shot is enhanced with a figure in as it lends scale, human interest and usually some colour, but if taking a long exposure (eg on "B" and light painting) then blurring can easily occur. For old mines with artifacts a human in the image can also lend to the atmosphere of an industrial / archaeological environment, while in a cave the absence of a figure can easily remove all concept of scale.
My current camera is only a happy snapper and nothing fancy, but when I can afford to move up to a digi SLR then better shots with more depth of view and a greater variety of options will be open to me..
Anyway, what are your thoughts - people in or out?

Click to expand...

In - they give scale and often add motion or drama to the scene.

I would say it depends upon the audience your gunna show the pic to. I generally take pictures for cavers and i think that almost all cavers want people in, for whatever reasons. Therefore almost all my shots have people in. However, the joe-public are more open minded about what makes a good cave photo and I find that they often like to see more artistic lighting effects or loads of formations, rather than passages with people dotted along them or fun sporting waterfalls.

I reckon this difference is possibly because we, as cavers, see pics and either want to go there, or try to imagine what it is like there, compared to other caves we've been in. Therefore we want scale. They, as non-cavers, want to see pictures that are different to anything they've seen before (which is easy if they never been underground!) so they are happy with or without people in.

(Hows about that for generalisation!)

I'd generally go for someone in the shot.
sometimes i don't ,. but those tend to be close ups of stals and stuff, where you could put someone in , but it jsut looks  forced

I haven't done any cave photograpy but I will do soon, but speaking from what I like to see I think it really depends what you are shooting. If it's a really attractive gour pool with crystals in then I would not want someones face next to it. If it was a deep and scary looking traverse then a person lends scale and interest to the picture. Generally I would go for people in the shot but not for photos of some pretties.

I'm not a photographer but I take alot of pictures. I prefer a person in the shot, I take them more to record the trip so I suppose I like pictures of caving rather than of caves.

I also think human figures give scale and interest.

Look at Robbie Shone's poster of Titan.

No figures: "Hmm... that's a dark hole. I wonder how big it is?"

With figures: "Bloody hell - that's HUGE!"

People will usually add something to a photograph, making it easier for the viewer to appreciate the cave environment. Where the photo is to make a technical record of something, a scale of known size should be used - people do not come in a standard size yet. Even this can cause problems. Coins have been used to provide scale, but these can change size too. The 10p, 5p, and 50p coins have all got smaller since they were first introduced. A clearly marked scale bar is by far the best.

Generally in - as has already been said above it helps to give a sense of scale and sometimes interest to a photo, plus of course they can help by being a useful flash-holder if nowhere suitable is found. Close-ups of formations etc I might try without, depending on the situation.

This photo has nothing in it to scale it. Unless you knew the site you would have no real idea of how large this boulder choke really was.


Here is a picture of me taking a photo in the same place. It's not a very big chamber at all!

People in cave photos can serve a number of purposes, both practical and compositional. Some examples:

Action Shot
The person is the picture. e.g. Caver climbing a ladder in a waterfall.
http://footleg.supanet.com/Photography/Cave/CavYorJonLChurnsWater1.html

Record Shot
The activity is the picture, but this usually involves a person. e.g. Caver making survey notes.
http://footleg.supanet.com/Photography/Cave/SpaSpaSketchingTrackside.html

Formations Shot
The person can help give a focus to the picture, leading your eye into the scene. i.e. Makes you look at what they are looking at.
http://footleg.supanet.com/Photography/Cave/FreFraMaillonManqFlowstone.html

Backlit Passage Shot
The person serves a practical purpose, by blocking the glare from the flash pointing directly at the camera.
http://footleg.supanet.com/Photography/Cave/CavPeaPeakMainDrain.html

Large Chamber Shot
The person gives a sense of scale. (They can also serve a practical purpose, by holding a flash like the figure in the background here).
http://footleg.supanet.com/Photography/Cave/CavYorGGMainChamber.html

Of course in some pictures the person can detract from the scene. This could be because the picture is about a formation rather than about a caver with a formation. Think about what story you are trying to tell with your picture. This will guide you in deciding whether a person adds to or takes something away from that story.

Or maybe the person you are using just doesn't look right and spoils the picture (e.g. Some people just look uncomfortable when posed, or appear incapable of looking at the camera, or keeping their eyes open).

If in doubt, take one picture with the person, and one without. Then decide which you like best when you get them printed or up on the computer screen after the trip.

As Above....



To joe-public, a nice wet passage.



To a caver, a nice wet squeeze. Squishy