I've recently setup a company to help fill the growing need for PPE face visors, both within the NHS and also for what may become the new normal for many "ordinary" people. See www.sheffshield.co.uk for info. NOTE this is more an information gathering exercise than sales pitch.

I am interested to see what people think about these for use during caving. As a prolific caver i'm ashamed to say they were not designed for such use, but i tried one this week and it seemed to fit OK with a caving helmet on. The main reason i tried this was because one of the surface digs the Eldon are doing right now blows out so hard that soil and even small pebbles get thrown up at you! A SheffShield visor was actually brilliant for this situation (certainly better/cheaper than Jeff's motorbike helmet!). It did get filthy and scratched in the process which was annoying, but the visor is replaceable at least.

So, would people feel like this is type of product that may mean they go back underground sooner, or in larger groups maybe? It's maybe also worth noting that it is designed to be worn with a face mask as well, and even has special hooks on it to help them stay on.

how does it deal with condensation from breath?

JoshW said:

how does it deal with condensation from breath?

Click to expand...

TBH i'm not sure. On the surface it's fine. It has an anti-fog coating on the inside so it can fog slightly but it dissipates in seconds. However underground it may be different (humidity, temperature, increased exertion, etc).

How do they cope with getting muddy? Can you still see OK after going through a lot of mud?

Rob said:

So, would people feel like this is type of product that may mean they go back underground sooner, or in larger groups maybe?

Click to expand...

No. If people are paranoid to the extent that they think this is necessary, perhaps they should consider the other risks of caving and whether it is really the sport for them.

As a means of keeping dust/ grit out of the eyes while digging, there may be some scenarios where it could be useful, but personally, I've never had a dig with that much wind that dust is a problem and usually just accept that grit in the eyes is part of the digging experience 

PS I don't think I'd use it for caving. If I thought that a visor would make a difference to the transmission risk I would probably want to re-assess the whole trip. I wouldn't be getting close enough to my caving partners for them to be firing droplets at my face, instead I'd be more bothered about breathing their air in a crawl or something, which in my opinion is the only real risk of transmission in a cave as long as you aren't licking the rope etc.

Speleotron said:

as long as you aren't licking the rope etc.

Click to expand...

I've had to lick mud off the threads for bolt hangers on a few occasions, but I've never been tempted to lick a rope  :ras:

Wearing one of those, I guess I would feel the pain of all those cavers who wear glasses.

He's wearing glasses too! Double trouble. Is this the new safety-conscious EPC I've been hearing about lately? Great to see a motorbike helmet in a dig though. Necessity is the mother of invention

WTF Covid on a rope being used by dopes😳
If it is of that much concern stay home, do not procreate for the safety of what is left of human life😏
While we're at it Ban caving worldwide!
We may infect the bats🙄

My initial reaction is that yes, it would be useful. I take Scout groups caving down easy systems, so there wouldn't be problems with scratching or mud. It would be reassurance for the Scouts that they would be unlikely to catch Covid-19 from me, and it might help to protect me from them. They will have travelled to meet me in their own transport so they won't have socially distanced from each other. I would use one. And I wear glasses as well!

phizz4 said:

My initial reaction is that yes, it would be useful. I take Scout groups caving down easy systems, so there wouldn't be problems with scratching or mud. It would be reassurance for the Scouts that they would be unlikely to catch Covid-19 from me, and it might help to protect me from them. They will have travelled to meet me in their own transport so they won't have socially distanced from each other. I would use one. And I wear glasses as well!

Click to expand...

Can't imagine the scouts will be opening the lid on meetings until waaaaay after Covid has passed.

An additional thought. It would also provide reassurance to parents etc. One of the reasons that many parents are not sending their children back to school is the absence of PPE for teachers. When I return (on furlough at the moment) I am not going to be required to wear PPE. As much as anything that is probably because schools are having to fund their own PPE and either can't afford it or can't get hold of it. Going back to any outdoor activities (I also instruct climbing and hill walking) is as much about other people's safety as it is about my own.

You are assuming that Covid will pass. Some experts are predicting that it will always be with us, like Flu, and that we have to be prepared for it as best we can. There's also the posibility of Covid-20, Covid-21 etc. Even if it is a long time before Scouts go back to caving or other outdoor activities, it is useful to prepare for it and think about how it might be managed.

Another thought is that one of the key things with CV19 is to try and not touch your face as much. I'm terrible for wiping my face whilst caving (always come out looking like I've got war paint on), but imagine i'd be mopping more than a little sweat from my brow with one of these on.

phizz4 said:

You are assuming that Covid will pass. Some experts are predicting that it will always be with us, like Flu, and that we have to be prepared for it as best we can. There's also the posibility of Covid-20, Covid-21 etc. Even if it is a long time before Scouts go back to caving or other outdoor activities, it is useful to prepare for it and think about how it might be managed.

Click to expand...

On this basis, do you foresee a world where our species refuse to interact at distances less than 2m and wear face visors whenever meeting other people?

I'll take my chances with the virus!

Quote 'I'll take my chances with the virus'. My son's friends in London had a similar outlook, 4 in hospital, two dead, all of them younger than me. I'm trying not to have to take my chances with the virus.

phizz4 said:

Quote 'I'll take my chances with the virus'. My son's friends in London had a similar outlook, 4 in hospital, two dead, all of them younger than me. I'm trying not to have to take my chances with the virus.

Click to expand...

Think it's fair to say that Pete wasn't planning on going out in the middle of the epidemic. At some point the level of infection will drop to a level where a judgement call has to be made to continue on reasonably.

Not being allowed to be within 2m and always with a face mask can not and will not be the way things are going forwards.

Precisely my point. Thank you Josh.

For now, in the middle of a pandemic, we should be taking certain extra precautions. If as is suggested, this or other strains of coronavirus become endemic, I can't see myself of others living out the rest of their lives in a PPE bubble.

At some point, we are going to have to get on with life without face shields and social distancing.

Personally, I think that the idea of a face shield while caving would be like putting on suncream before a cage fight with a polar bear! Sure, it's effective against the risk it's designed for, but compared to everything else you are up against it's totally pointless.

I would also think that it is very likely to lead to more accidents due to obscuring visibility. Has anyone actually tried caving with something like this? I bet the glare would be horrendous, even before it gets steamed up and filthy.

Not for me.

Alex said:

Wearing one of those, I guess I would feel the pain of all those cavers who wear glasses.

Click to expand...

My first thought was 'how would I push my glasses back up my nose wearing that'