Travel and other Covid Rants

Alex

Well-known member
Moderator Comment:
Discussion on travel and other Covid rants split from Aygill Caverns thread: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=27218.msg333474


I might be able to get there by M6, as that's still in Lancs (my area), am I likely to pass one of those ANPR cameras or am I still in Lancs when I reach the BPF rd. I know there won't be any cameras on that road, but anyone with local knowledge know please? It's really pissing me off what NYP are doing! I might think twice if I come out on a search for them. "Oh i am sorry, I am not allowed into this area!".
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Have a look at the CNCC advice and make your own decision like many others have.

FWIW - the police in and around the Dales area are usually too limited on resources to turn out for farm burglaries etc.  If you think they are monitoring who is visiting the Dales and who is not then I expect you are wrong.  I travel out of area at least once a week for work and have not seen a single sign of police as I return to the Dales.
 

2xw

Active member
Alex said:
I might be able to get there by M6, as that's still in Lancs (my area), am I likely to pass one of those ANPR cameras or am I still in Lancs when I reach the BPF rd. I know there won't be any cameras on that road, but anyone with local knowledge know please? It's really pissing me off what NYP are doing! I might think twice if I come out on a search for them. "Oh i am sorry, I am not allowed into this area!".

They're just warning people, nothing they can do about it.
 

Benfool

Member
Surely they can only warn you if there are some consequences to your actions. Considering they have no powers to stop you from traveling, they can only really offer words of advice.

Personally I don't follow the advice of bumbling buffoons.

B
 

Alex

Well-known member
Thanks, I might risk it then. Does anyone want a hand clearing it out and/or shoring up the damn outside, am free Saturday.
 

Stu

Active member
Alex said:
If I can get past the police, do you want a hand digging it out this weekend?

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/tier-3-bridge-drivers-trying-19411541?fbclid=IwAR0UUb3TLU1lPfjoj16LNEOFhSXXGF1Kh-0gL-z-VSP_NbeJsz3HCKT7LdM

For the sake of disclosure: I suppose because my wife works in a very busy hospital in a Tier 3 area I've got skin in this game.

It's interesting that you and quite a few other people are viewing it as "what can I get away with" (not that travel is illegal of course). Looked at through the other end of the telescope of "how can I be part of a solution to help stop the spread of a virus" it might inform a different course of action. Because that's the bottom line here. The virus spreads because of people and people moving between groups/areas.

Do what you want, and indeed are legally allowed to (whether NY Police are right or wrong in this case, the inconvenience of testing it out might prove more hassle than it's worth).

Go easy, go safe, make reasonable and conscionable decisions Alex. If that all fits with going caving, go.
 

Alex

Well-known member
Well Stu, you have put me into rant mode again, sorry not against you just my general frustrations with things.

I am happy to wear face mask and take precautions washing hands etc, but I cannot live with these restrictions for much longer, it's making life unbearable and frankly rather pointless. It's work eat sleep at the moment, caving's my one last bit of freedom and they want to take that away too!

Caving, is hardly a strong vector for the virus, it's not like I come into contact with vulnerable people either I spend most of my time at home, thanks to this virus. So should I and others just lie down and go to sleep for the next 6 months (or longer) until its over? I along with everyone else have had to effectively put life on hold and collectively given almost a year each meaning 70 million years of life lost which divided by 70 is 7 million lives in lost time, what if this is the last year of my life? I think we have all sacrificed a heck of a lot to try and stop the virus spreading.

What about the damage the lockdown it is doing to people's mental health, physical health if they cannot do the sports they normally. What about local businesses who are open in Tier 2 so now so not getting government support, but only getting a fraction of there business if people are now allowed into the area. You can guarantee the Tories don't care about those. It's also a very unfair system, where I am is sparsely populated and low infection rates locally, so I should not even be in tier 3 in the first place, here. With unfair rules like that of course me and others are going to look for ways around it. This has gone on for long enough in my view and the cure is far worse then the disease. The tier system is largely unfair and is not effective because of this.

The Tories also don't care about the north, except the the northern MPs who will loose the seats come next election, so they can keep the North under tier 3 for as long as they want, we might not come out until a full vaccine is distributed everywhere.

I am aware hospitals are struggling, I mean I have been waiting for investigative op since March, but that's because people keep voting Tory and so they are chronically underfunded they struggle even without the virus, so if people want to do something, then people need to stop voting Tory! I mean the Tories are still doing Brexit FFs when there is a very real possibility this could disrupt the distribution of the vaccine, do we trust them roll it out effectively anyway, after the shambles with PPE, contracts for their mates etc?

 

Fjell

Well-known member
I don?t vote for this lot, but it?s not entirely clear the NHS is underfunded. Having lived in other European countries I am a little sceptical as to how it is run in comparison. I have been going to a lot of hospitals with various old folks and it is often like a scene from Brazil. Some of this really is due to a lack of interest in efficiency at various levels. It is unbelievable how hard it is to get someone out of hospital, we just had one stuck there (again) for 6 weeks too long - no-one cares and it is not good for patients as very little personal care happens (they do medicine not care, it?s not the same). It?s been really shit during covid because you can?t go in to look after people.

We are about middle of the road for OECD countries in % of GDP. Other western European countries spend more because we have a lower GDP per head these days. That is really what the discussion needs to be about. It is a truism that richer countries spend more. So we either need to be richer or have fewer people. Particularly old people which is where all the money is spent.
 

Alex

Well-known member
Mods can we split this post please, my fault! This is no longer Aygill caverns!

Fjell, yes that's the other issue under-funding of social care in normal times that impacts the NHS as like you say they have no where to send the patients back to as there are homes available, of course with Covid if they send them back, it tends to wipe out half the people in the care-homes too, but even when they are no longer at risk of spreading the virus to the care-homes, they are still stuck in the hospital with no where else to go.

I think this virus has exposed quite rawly the inequalities of our society.
 

Stu

Active member
Alex said:
Well Stu, you have put me into rant mode again, sorry not against you just my general frustrations with things.

I am happy to wear face mask and take precautions washing hands etc, but I cannot live with these restrictions for much longer, it's making life unbearable and frankly rather pointless. It's work eat sleep at the moment, caving's my one last bit of freedom and they want to take that away too!

Caving, is hardly a strong vector for the virus, it's not like I come into contact with vulnerable people either I spend most of my time at home, thanks to this virus. So should I and others just lie down and go to sleep for the next 6 months (or longer) until its over? I along with everyone else have had to effectively put life on hold and collectively given almost a year each meaning 70 million years of life lost which divided by 70 is 7 million lives in lost time, what if this is the last year of my life? I think we have all sacrificed a heck of a lot to try and stop the virus spreading.

What about the damage the lockdown it is doing to people's mental health, physical health if they cannot do the sports they normally. What about local businesses who are open in Tier 2 so now so not getting government support, but only getting a fraction of there business if people are now allowed into the area. You can guarantee the Tories don't care about those. It's also a very unfair system, where I am is sparsely populated and low infection rates locally, so I should not even be in tier 3 in the first place, here. With unfair rules like that of course me and others are going to look for ways around it. This has gone on for long enough in my view and the cure is far worse then the disease. The tier system is largely unfair and is not effective because of this.

The Tories also don't care about the north, except the the northern MPs who will loose the seats come next election, so they can keep the North under tier 3 for as long as they want, we might not come out until a full vaccine is distributed everywhere.

I am aware hospitals are struggling, I mean I have been waiting for investigative op since March, but that's because people keep voting Tory and so they are chronically underfunded they struggle even without the virus, so if people want to do something, then people need to stop voting Tory! I mean the Tories are still doing Brexit FFs when there is a very real possibility this could disrupt the distribution of the vaccine, do we trust them roll it out effectively anyway, after the shambles with PPE, contracts for their mates etc?

Rant away, no one is going to stop you. Neither are they stopping you caving. I suspect you're having an internal struggle about it because you're probably a decent bloke trying to do the reasonable thing. And I'm breaking my rule about getting into Covid threads! It'll do no good for my mood :blink: :eek: :)

If you don't know my where my politics lie have a gander at my avatar. You'll get no argument from me on your wider points.
 

Ed

Active member
Alex - relax

CAving is only a hobby and nothing important in the grand scheme of things. it can wait - think yourself lucky you have physical health, capacity, and roof over your head and a job.
  Alot in this country let alone global don't have all these.

Reason why the Tier system isn't working so well is because of the number of people and businesses ignoring the guidelines ---- should of been enforced hard to start with, like in France etc.

 

PeteHall

Moderator
Ed, staying physically and mentally fit and healthy is very important and for some (myself included) this generally involves caving.

Me, or anyone else going caving is hardly going to hurt someone who is homeless or jobless, so I'm really not sure what your point is.  :confused:

The tier system is based on arbitrary boundaries and is largely meaningless. Like Alex, I live in a rural area with few cases locally, yet due to an administrative boundary, I live in Tier 3, despite the fact that the other side of the village (and our local town less than 2 miles away are in Tier 2. For me to do my shopping in my 'local area' (based on administrative boundaries), I'd have to travel 15 miles into a 'higher risk' area, or I can travel out of my 'local area' and go 2 miles to my local town, where half the kids at our nursery live anyway.

You can park at the UBSS hut in tier 3, but walk 100 yards to Bath Swallet and you are in Tier 2.

It's all a total load of crap.  o_O

Use your brain and get on with life as best you are allowed.
 

darren

Member
Meanwhile the infection rate goes up and down and up, the number of people who die goes up and down and up.

And its no ones fault. No one is taking any risks, everyone is behaving safely and sensibly. Its those other idiots who are the problem

Its like taxes, everyone believes everyone else should pay there tax/ more tax while its ok for me to avoid tax/pay cash to avoid vat.

It's the way of the world. Everyone takes logical, perfectly understandable decisions about their own behaviour leading to behaviour that is not good for society as a whole.





 
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