Metal Steps KMC

Balmerfish

Member
Hi,
Feeling curious regarding these metal bars that have appeared in KMC after 8ths July (i think). We saw them around 21st, and grabbed some quick pics this Saturday -pics arnt wonderful quality.
 

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Balmerfish

Member
Hi Paul,
i wondered that too, it was an area that there seemed to be plenty foot holds, and place for rope to be riggeed - so i wasnt sure.
 

Simon Beck

Member
Why now after almost half a century managing without?

Regardless of the good work they do I've never felt they have any right to adapt the caves to their needs, adapting themselves should remain paramount.
 

Inferus

New member
I contemplated a long reply but to condense it a little...

Why????  o_O

Someone has the answer, be brave and explain..
 

Cave_Troll

Active member
why ? - because someone thinks they're needed or useful
you presumably don't

in the same way that most people think P Bolts are useful and others don't
 

Ed

Active member
Simon Beck said:
Why now after almost half a century managing without?

Regardless of the good work they do I've never felt they have any right to adapt the caves to their needs, adapting themselves should remain paramount.

No use of hangers / bolts, scaffolding or capping for you in future Mr B?
 

Alex

Well-known member
I thought they had been there a lot longer than that, at least as far as the climb alternative to the pitch. I recall seeing one there over a year ago, about 2 thirds of the way up. Unless I am imagining things.
 
Ed said:
Simon Beck said:
Why now after almost half a century managing without?

Regardless of the good work they do I've never felt they have any right to adapt the caves to their needs, adapting themselves should remain paramount.

No use of hangers / bolts, scaffolding or capping for you in future Mr B?

I think there?s a slight difference between exploration / digging and rigging aids in a well travelled cave.
 

Simon Beck

Member
Under the differing circumstances we operate, no two cavers will ever agree on everything, and I wouldn't expect them too.

This mind you is a pretty radical upgrade to a system that worked perfectly fine before as it was. I maybe jumped the gun accusing the obvious rescue team. But whoever it was needs to come forward and explain. 
 

grinding_joints

New member
As a member of the 'obvious recue team',  and a member of the Ops group for said team,  I can tell you that any permanent rigging or aids we fit are always done in consultation with CNCC or,  above ground,  the BMC and other interested parties. These steps have never been discussed or sanctioned by the teams Ops group.
On some rescues,  we need to rig extra hangers or bolts,  which are then either made good or referred to CNCC to see if they will allow them to remain.
Believe it or not, we do try not to damage the cave environment.
 

mch

Member
Flotsam said:
I could climb the pitch without aid 30 years ago or so and I was a pretty rubbish climber
Me too. I can't see why you would need aids. If you were doing a through trip from Simpson's or Swinsto exiting via KMC and felt that you weren't competent to free climb the pitch then just pop in and rig it beforehand.
 
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