BCA Newsletter 31 is now out and online

David Rose

Active member
The new BCA newsletter (my first as editor) is now out and online at the BCA website. Please do have a look, and if motivated, make comments or contribute to ongoing debate about any issues raised on the forum.

Here is the link:

http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=news_events:nov17
 

Jack Hare

New member
Is it possible to get a high contrast "black text on a white background" version, either as a PDF or an alternative website style? I'm finding off-black text on a grey background pretty hard to read!
 

PaulW

Member
It is available as a PDF dpwnload as aee all the other previous newsletters on the BCA website

http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications_information:bca_newsletter_31_nov_2017.pdf


Link to current one
 

Stuart France

Active member
Why is it that I can't find any obvious link to download the BCA Newsletter 31 as a PDF file from the BCA website itself, so I have to come to this forum to look for a download link that someone's kindly posted.

It is madness that the "Documents and Minutes" menu item is listed inside the "About" menu on the BCA website, and more crazy still that the Newsletters are not a choice that you can select within the "Documents and Minutes" section.  If you look under "About" | "Press and Media" it isn't there either.

If I might venture on the mildest of suggestions:  'Documents' needs to be a top level menu item which expands into Council Minutes, AGM Minues, Policies, Leaflets, Newsletters, and so on.  When you click on newsletters then you see all of them as links, and then click on any one of those to download it.  If there are dozens of newsletters (or minutes or whatever) then you need a smart drop-down menu to pick the one you want most efficiently from a list, and if the choice you've made doesn't exist (e.g. you selected October 2017) then you are served with the closest matching edition that does exist (i.e. November 2017).

The photo links for the Draenen article don't work on the BCA website scrollable version of the newsletter. If you click on these links then you get a "forbidden" message not the actual photo!

I agree with comments earlier on this thread that black-letters-on-a-grey background (or red on grey) is particularly difficult to read.  I know grey is the fashion - think the green wooden forestry signs all over Wales being replaced with brand new grey-letters-on-a-grey-background ones at the taxpayers expense - and builders merchants packed with all shades of grey tiles to adorn one's kitchen or bathroom renovation.

If I didn't know better, having sat through some recent council meetings, I would be thinking the BCA website is a disinformation conspiracy and not a galloping cock-up.

Having said all of that concerning presentation and accessibility, David Rose is to be warmly congratulated on putting together a large amount of interesting content that must have taken up a lot of his time to create.


 

Cookie

New member
Stuart France said:
Why is it that I can't find any obvious link to download the BCA Newsletter 31 as a PDF file from the BCA website itself, so I have to come to this forum to look for a download link that someone's kindly posted.
Because you haven't tried hard enough? It is linked numerous times. Googling "BCA Newsletter" gets the page you want first time. Did you consider the internal search function? 3/10 for effort.

It is madness that the "Documents and Minutes" menu item is listed inside the "About" menu on the BCA website, and more crazy still that the Newsletters are not a choice that you can select within the "Documents and Minutes" section.  If you look under "About" | "Press and Media" it isn't there either.

If I might venture on the mildest of suggestions:  'Documents' needs to be a top level menu item which expands into Council Minutes, AGM Minues, Policies, Leaflets, Newsletters, and so on.  When you click on newsletters then you see all of them as links, and then click on any one of those to download it.  If there are dozens of newsletters (or minutes or whatever) then you need a smart drop-down menu to pick the one you want most efficiently from a list, and if the choice you've made doesn't exist (e.g. you selected October 2017) then you are served with the closest matching edition that does exist (i.e. November 2017).

Life is to short to code up "smart drop-down menus" when it is perfectly well laid out on the relevant page.

The photo links for the Draenen article don't work on the BCA website scrollable version of the newsletter. If you click on these links then you get a "forbidden" message not the actual photo!

You've finally said something useful. Fixed.

I agree with comments earlier on this thread that black-letters-on-a-grey background (or red on grey) is particularly difficult to read.  I know grey is the fashion - think the green wooden forestry signs all over Wales being replaced with brand new grey-letters-on-a-grey-background ones at the taxpayers expense - and builders merchants packed with all shades of grey tiles to adorn one's kitchen or bathroom renovation.

Comment noted but I think the pdf is the solution for those with accessibility issues.

I seem to recall you criticising the site when it was more utilitarian, now you criticise it for being too graphical. 

If I didn't know better, having sat through some recent council meetings, I would be thinking the BCA website is a disinformation conspiracy and not a galloping cock-up.

What are you on about?

Having said all of that concerning presentation and accessibility, David Rose is to be warmly congratulated on putting together a large amount of interesting content that must have taken up a lot of his time to create.

Why such a hostile posting? If you really want to have a go, do it in private.

Top tip: You are far more likely to get what you want if you are less aggressive.
 

Stuart France

Active member
Is that right?  Use Google to make my way around the BCA website because its own menu system is unfathomable?

And there is still no answer as how to find the link to the Newsletter 31 pdf file starting from the BCA home page.  I know that I am not alone in being unable to figure this out.

Here?s one way to implement a drop-down list to retrieve a particular newsletter from a library containing hundreds of editions:  http://dev.chelseaspelaeo.org/publications.htm

Select say 2012 as the year and March as the month, then click the View Selection button to see what your request matches, then click on Download.  I know this isn?t beautiful, but it works, and it is only 50 or so lines of server side code knocked up one evening by an amateur (me).  Access to recent CSS newsletters requires a login, but the older ones like 2012 are public domain.

The main issues I have with the BCA website are not its page geometry or its colour scheme but that its content doesn?t promote caving and doesn?t inspire anyone let alone new recruits.  It?s more of a static reference work or document library that is also hard to navigate around.

Adverts aside, the BMC home page https://www.thebmc.co.uk/ is positive, inspirational, informational, with 13 bright photos leading to main articles, and a gallery of 14 little photos leading to further topics at the bottom.  I know the BMC publishes a quarterly paper magazine too, but their website is effectively their newsletter as well as being a marketing and influencing tool.

We should be thinking of the BCA newsletter moving in this direction too ? online, modular, attractively presented, constantly bits of new stuff being added and old stuff dropping off.  If it looks good on screen and the stories submitted by cavers appear on the website relatively quickly then other cavers will be inspired by what they see to contribute their own material, and it will gain a momentum of its own.

Wishing for better, making suggestions and pointing out a few issues isn?t being negative. It?s actually being constructive.

 

Les W

Active member
Stuart France said:
And there is still no answer as how to find the link to the Newsletter 31 pdf file starting from the BCA home page.  I know that I am not alone in being unable to figure this out.

So how about:

british-caving.org.uk
-Services
-Publications
-Newsletters

Where you will find all the PDF's of all the newsletters, listed with the most recent at the top
(also web versions of the more recent ones)
 

kay

Well-known member
Les W said:
So how about:

british-caving.org.uk
-Services
-Publications
-Newsletters

Where you will find all the PDF's of all the newsletters, listed with the most recent at the top
(also web versions of the more recent ones)

That presumably works well if you decide to look for a BCA newletter, start by going to the BCA site and work from the top.

But if you are new to BCA, you click on David's link and go straight to the newsletter, you are also probably unaware that it will also be available in pdf (and that the pdf version is black on white and not merely a facsimile of the page). People generally don't go searching for something they don't know exists. So I agree, it would be helpful to have an obvious link to the pdf version.
 

Les W

Active member
kay said:
Les W said:
So how about:

british-caving.org.uk
-Services
-Publications
-Newsletters

Where you will find all the PDF's of all the newsletters, listed with the most recent at the top
(also web versions of the more recent ones)

That presumably works well if you decide to look for a BCA newletter, start by going to the BCA site and work from the top.

But that was what Stuart asked for...    :unsure:

kay said:
But if you are new to BCA, you click on David's link and go straight to the newsletter, you are also probably unaware that it will also be available in pdf (and that the pdf version is black on white and not merely a facsimile of the page). People generally don't go searching for something they don't know exists. So I agree, it would be helpful to have an obvious link to the pdf version.

So actually what you are asking is that if anybody posts a link, to any document, they should post alternative links to all formats of the document, to save somebody else going to the website and using the menus?  :-\
 

mikem

Well-known member
If it is available in alternative formats, then the document should say so - all it needs is a statement that it is also available as a pdf.

Mike
 

Les W

Active member
mikem said:
If it is available in alternative formats, then the document should say so - all it needs is a statement that it is also available as a pdf.

Mike

I get your point.
A statement on the relevant web page, perhaps with a link to the PDF, would make people aware there was a PDF, and where it was.
That is something the Webmaster could consider to make people's lives that little bit easier.

If people really wanted the PDF they could register their email address at BCA Online and get the latest copy straight into their inbox...
 

David Rose

Active member
There are data protection issues about simply sending the newsletter as a PDF to every member - although it is hard to see why any of them wouldn't want a copy.

David Cooke has been working on ways to solve this problem. And I'd like personally to thank him for sending out the newsletter to those who have already indicated they want it, for posting it on the site, and for all the other work he does for the BCA. He's going to give me a tutorial soon so I can do it myself in future.

It would be nice if people could sometimes pay attention to the tone of written comments. It is a good idea to read back what you've written before posting it, and where appropriate, make changes. I would like to think that occasionally people do send things out that seem harsher than they mean to be. 
 

darren

Member
I just assumed there was some hidden history between the posters in this thread I was unaware of.

Hopeing to find out what it was  next time I met someone who new.
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Brilliant newsletter, David! (y) I'm super excited about The Ario Dream film, but can't make it to KMF so I'm waiting for it to come out on Vimeo. Also glad to see CHECC making an appearance.
 

nobrotson

Active member
David, I must underline that CHECC is NOT a party, it is a training and networking event at which there will be no alcohol consumed, though there may be a few games of shove ha'penny and bridge. Students are NOT irresponsible drunkards, but real people whose efforts to contribute to society must be recognised and taken seriously. It is NOT fair for all students to be tarred with the brush of debaucherous orgies of misdemeanour as have unfortunately been conducted in the past.
 

David Rose

Active member
It seems I must apologise to CHECC members.  I had been told that your weekends did involve the occasional glass of sherry, and even music characterised by strong beats, but I realise I must have been misinformed.

But maybe you should reconsider? Back in the day, when I was a young caver, we did find that apres caving fun lubricated with just a little alcohol did no harm, and helped attract new adherents. Also opportunities for social mingling beyond the restrictive confined of playing bridge was quite enjoyable.

Just a thought. I'm sure you know what appeals to young people these days.   
 

NewStuff

New member
nobrotson said:
David, I must underline that CHECC is NOT a party, it is a training and networking event at which there will be no alcohol consumed, though there may be a few games of shove ha'penny and bridge. Students are NOT irresponsible drunkards, but real people whose efforts to contribute to society must be recognised and taken seriously. It is NOT fair for all students to be tarred with the brush of debaucherous orgies of misdemeanour as have unfortunately been conducted in the past.

I hope that's a piss-poor attempt at humour, and is not genuine handwringing. *Every* student I know, the only exceptions that I can currently think of are mature (40+) students, that caves or mine explores, will have a drink, or several. Especially at an event, and it's irrespective of being in a uni club or not. I find I'm the rare one that doesn't drink much, no matter the age of the cavers I'm with. I don't think any of them have got to the "Debauched Orgy" stage, but I'm old and well spoken for, so I don't get invited to those anyway ;-)
 
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