Perusing the billions of hobby related Facebook sites you see some funny old things. OK I guess a few of us so called photographers have shoved a limb or two over the line but this one takes the biccy. Its all horribly posed in any case. How long will that pristine formation last with photos like that ?

Dont worry. Its not in the UK.

I can't understand why anyone would want to ruin photo of a superb formation by embedding themselves on it. It does look like they took their boots off and climbed up in stocking feet, but that doesn't change the fact that its desecration and may encourage other idiots. :yucky:

Dave

It could be worse! Other countries tend to have different views on the conservation of caves. Back in the early seventies, whilst caving in Yugoslavia, a friend happened to admire a particular small stalactite and pointed it out to the Yugoslav cavers we were with at the time. On our last night, one of them proudly brought forth a neat wooden box which he gave to my friend, and there, lovingly nestled in some cotton wool, was the stalactite...

We couldn't make a fuss really.

tony from suffolk said:

It could be worse! Other countries tend to have different views on the conservation of caves. Back in the early seventies, whilst caving in Yugoslavia, a friend happened to admire a particular small stalactite and pointed it out to the Yugoslav cavers we were with at the time. On our last night, one of them proudly brought forth a neat wooden box which he gave to my friend, and there, lovingly nestled in some cotton wool, was the stalactite...

We couldn't make a fuss really.

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I don't know about Yugoslav culture, but I have had friends from certain cultures where if you admire something, if you can gift it to the person who admired it, you do, *especially* if a visitor. I wonder if something like that influenced it.

And yeah...I put down tape in the cave we found, and people are already complaining, threatening to take it out as trash, I've had to pull mud out of pearls (that are taped off)...wtf people. I'll probably be back down there in November and I am actually worried about what I'll find. And it isn't "public" the location yet, so it's friends of friends, or friends of friends of friends...We even laid out white tape so it looks nice and is easy to photoshop out, and it's laid in a way you can photo everything there easily without crossing the lines. It is just...disappointing. I made a general post on fb about some stuff left in it found (gloves, hair tie) and the mud in the pearls, and was jumped on. I don't get it. I don't know whos they are or who messed the mud, not calling anyone out, simply making the observation of how sad it was that *already* it is happening. I just...I don't see it happening in the UK? is it just because I'm not always there? But the "vibe" i get from you brits is way more conservation minded than it is here in the sense that *everyone* follows it, rather than 80% and the other 20% are enough to ruin it over time (numbers pulled from my arse, for an idea, of what it feels like it is here).

Dave Tyson said:

I can't understand why anyone would want to ruin photo of a superb formation by embedding themselves on it. It does look like they took their boots off and climbed up in stocking feet, but that doesn't change the fact that its desecration and may encourage other idiots. :yucky:

Dave

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I agreed, but I do like to see scale in a photo.  Perhaps the model should be to one side of the formation, not on it.

Amy said:

I just...I don't see it happening in the UK? is it just because I'm not always there? But the "vibe" i get from you brits is way more conservation minded than it is here in the sense that *everyone* follows it, rather than 80% and the other 20% are enough to ruin it over time (numbers pulled from my arse, for an idea, of what it feels like it is here).

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That's encouraging if your perception is right. What do you think we are doing right, to get the conservation message across?

kay said:

Amy said:

I just...I don't see it happening in the UK? is it just because I'm not always there? But the "vibe" i get from you brits is way more conservation minded than it is here in the sense that *everyone* follows it, rather than 80% and the other 20% are enough to ruin it over time (numbers pulled from my arse, for an idea, of what it feels like it is here).

Click to expand...

That's encouraging if your perception is right. What do you think we are doing right, to get the conservation message across?

Click to expand...

Culture difference. Pure and simple. Americans have a "WE are the best, we can do what we want, f*** the world" mentality, no we aren't all bad and it is a "minority" but it's there, reason that perception exists. And that "rules aren't for me, I can do what I want" goes into caving. People scoop other's projects if they figure out where they are. People encroach on other's digs if close to try and be the ones to break through. People don't care about crossing some tape if the photo they feel they deserve to take is over there. It's all the same mentality. It's a lack of respect for others and inflated self-ego. Pure n simple. And again, it is a minority as I said feels like 80"good" to 20"bad", but that's enough to matter. 

I guess it's a good job the space behind the formations wasn't a strongly draughting muddy boulder choke with the sound of a colossal waterfall in the distance...:halo:

It seems in this photo those people have taken all reasonable steps to avoid damage which is more than most would do and I do not think they would have done any damage at all taking this shot.

They have taken their boots and over-suits off (those are fleeces they are wearing), so no mud will get in there. What about erosion? Depends on how remote the cave is, them two alone will not have done any damage. There is a place in Mendips that you have to do that to visit the formations (and take pictures) so I don't think a witch hunt is warranted here.