Author Topic: feedback on the site  (Read 31294 times)

Offline thesiger

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feedback on the site
« on: September 23, 2010, 06:19:02 am »
As people probably know, UKCaving and UKBouldering run on the same server and so were a logical 2-for1 purchase for Simon and I when Bubba put them up for sale earlier this year. Over the first few months we did tend to focus more on UKB but we have now got more time to attend to UKCaving. One thing we will definitely do is roll out the banner/ sponsor thread revenue model we have instigated at UKB. But beyond that it would be useful to get feedback on the current state of UKCaving. Some people have suggested to us that the site has deteriorated and/or is not as popular with active cavers as it used to be (visit numbers are actually pretty stable)? Thoughts please ....

Offline whitelackington

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 08:20:56 am »
Yes, moderation is completely over the top
putting many people off.

Offline bubba

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 10:52:51 am »

The moderation is only over the top for somebody like you who consistently posts dreadful rubbish. Other than that the moderators just implement the rules which are there for all to see.
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 10:58:18 am »
I'd say the site is LESS friendly because there have been lapses in good moderation from time to time - perhaps this is to be expected when we all have other things to do, like earn a living. The best moderated sites are usually the more popular and friendly ones. If you know that personal attacks and comments that are designed to offend will be nipped in the bud, people tend to behave better, and get a more positive response to things they write.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 10:59:59 am »
Overall, the site works well. It would work better if some of the now infrequent posters came back more often. I may be imagining it but quite a few members with a Mendip allegiance seem to post far less frequently.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 11:00:37 am »
Somewhere between being moderated too much and moderated too little is a balancing act. Remember: you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but can't please any of the cavers any of the time. Perhaps there should be a discretionary daily post limit of 2 posts per prolific subscriber, so that no-one ends up hogging the limelight and everyone can have an equal say?

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 11:01:59 am »
I wasn't commenting on the amount of moderation, but more on its quality.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 11:03:00 am »
Perhaps there should be a discretionary daily post limit of 2 posts per prolific subscriber, so that no-one ends up hogging the limelight and everyone can have an equal say?
That's a very silly idea.  :spank:

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 11:04:40 am »
... but it might result in a better, more balanced, open forum?

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 11:05:39 am »
So would encouraging less frequent posters to contribute more? And with your idea, this discussion would already have ground to a juddering halt, and probably wouldn't be finished until February 23rd, 2011.

Offline khakipuce

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 11:59:48 am »
Or may be the less frequent posters are put off because they don't want to give some  :smartass: chance to correct their grammar?

Seriously, I have seen a few comments on here and heard more in person to the effect that there is too little caving and too much inane bickering over non-caving issues.

I personally think slashdot style moderation - where the community moderates by giving points to posts good or bad and there is a threshold beneath which posts are hidden - is a very good approach. That said I doubt that Simple Machines Forum supports this and if it did I doubt that there is a big enough regular user base on here to make it work.

Could the shit heap be excluded from "show unread posts"? - that would be pretty effective together with a rule that says if something like 5 people request a topic be shit heaped the mods do it.

Offline JessopSmythe

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 12:00:51 pm »
Personally, I post very little because I'm sick of almost every thread I'm moderately interested being taken over by certain prolific posters who seem to have an "expert" opinion on just about everything. Perhaps cap'n chris's suggestion isn't such a bad one.
"If at first you don't succeed, try again. If that doesn't work, quit. There's no point being a damn fool about it" Homer Simpson

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 12:12:56 pm »
A forum is a reflection of the opinions of all its members. If you don't post, then the forum will inevitably reflect the opinions of others, some of whom you won't necessarily agree with. If this puts you off, then I can see how a cycle develops that you might not like, BUT surely the way to break that cycle is to get involved. A good forum can be quiet and balanced, or busy and balanced. I prefer the latter as it encourages participation, and does not discourage it. If you think discouraging participation will make a better forum, then you can kiss goodbye to UKCaving as a useful resource in a matter of 12 months. A quiet and balanced forum can only really survive if it's members are some kind of exclusive club, like one within a caving club. But I guess that anyone who is put off by my posts simply on the basis that I post a lot of them won't have bothered to read this. I suspect there are plenty more less easily offended members, however.

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 12:41:21 pm »
Perhaps there should be a discretionary daily post limit of 2 posts per prolific subscriber, so that no-one ends up hogging the limelight and everyone can have an equal say?

I made a very similar suggestion a year or more ago. It fell on stoney ground with certain people then too, but I have seen nothing in the meanwhile which has persuaded me that it is not a good idea.

Nick.
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2010, 12:50:27 pm »
Chris used the term "hogging the limelight". This is a virtual medium. The "capacity" of the "stage" is not a physical concept. It can accommodate as many people as wish to "hog the limelight". The fact that they choose not to do so cannot be blamed on those that do. There is no concept of "getting a word in edgeways" in a virtual debate. Anybody can post as much as they like. Over the decades there have been many attempts to level any number of playing fields. The fact that these attempts rarely succeed, if ever, is down the simple basic fact that we are all different. The limelight is there for everyone to use if they want to. Nobody stops them, only their own inhibitions. I'd be happy to read ideas and opinions of anybody - the rare posters as much as the frequent ones. Curmudgeonly attitudes simply do not help.

Offline khakipuce

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2010, 12:57:57 pm »
How about the more you post the lighter and smaller your font becomes? If you want any modifications doing to the forum software I am happy to help out, I am an experienced PHP/MySQL developer.

That said I doubt this is going to get anywhere as Peter seems determined to prove in this thread excatly what is wrong with this forum.

Offline Brains

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2010, 01:04:12 pm »
Limelight is so last century, I prefer LED light now.  :lol:
People have been put off from because they feel "jumped on" if they do post something that some others may take exception to...
What do I like?
- 25 posts to a page, in some places it is only 10 posts and that is a pain!
- Access to a large cross section of the caving community (albeit skewed)
- Absence of secret boards that arent secret, creating a them and us feeling
- Moderation that isnt too severe, as we hear complaints of too much and too little

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 01:11:28 pm »
What I like:
Well-written, upbeat, fun trip reports
Up-to-date access information, discoveries, good news stories
Amusing and positive banter
Lack of linkings
New equipment news, comparisons, bright ideas etc.
Questions from newbies
Queries about latest state of play (see access info above)
er,....

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 01:18:13 pm »
Peter, you just don't get it, do you.

It's not about whether there is sufficient bandwidth for everyone, it's about having respect for other people's point of view. It's about giving people space to express themselves without them feeling that every time they take time and trouble to craft what they believe to be a well considered post someone is going to come along a trivialise it with an irrelevant comment about punctuation or spelling. It's about keeping your mouth shut so that people who care very much about caving and would like to be able to discuss it with friends, but who also have other important things to do with their lives, can post without having to devote time and thought to responding to people with mental diarrhoea.

You are the equivalent of the bore in the pub who has an opinion on everything and cannot resist the temptation to inflict on anyone who is unfortunate enough to be within earshot. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and STFU once in a while.

Nick.
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 01:32:51 pm »
Will the top twenty active posters on the forum agree to join me in a boycott of this site for four weeks? Not out of any kind of spite, because that's not what it's about. If the point is proven after that time I'll concede. Otherwise Nick, I suggest that when you do post stuff, you try to be a bit more civil. Rude man. Now we just need a list.

Offline khakipuce

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 01:50:09 pm »
How about a +/- button per user per post. So for each post each user views they see a + and - button, they get one chance to click one of the buttons, once clicked the buttons disappear for that user for that post.

+ means the post is positive/contributing

- means the post is negative/detracting from the topic

At a certain -ve threshold the post is shown collapsed - i.e. just a single line with poster and date/time. If you want to view the post you can expand it.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 01:51:36 pm »
Now we just need a list.
Here's a starter of ten:

cap 'n chris     8463 posts
Peter Burgess    6841 posts
graham    6696 posts
whitelackington     5645 posts
SamT     4544 posts
Les W     3052 posts
AndyF     2612 posts
bubba     2485 posts
paul     2194 posts
darkplaces  2009 posts

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 02:08:21 pm »
I like the + / - idea. If everybody thinks Peter spouts excessive shite, then it will rapidly demote his output. Or otherwise.

Chris.
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2010, 02:12:44 pm »
Now we just need a list.
Here's a starter of ten:

cap 'n chris     8463 posts
Peter Burgess    6841 posts
graham    6696 posts
whitelackington     5645 posts
SamT     4544 posts
Les W     3052 posts
AndyF     2612 posts
bubba     2485 posts
paul     2194 posts
dickplaces  2009 posts
I said ACTIVE users - that's more difficult to assess. You need to do a bit of work to see whose rate of posting is highest over, say, the last 6 months. Another way to do this is to do a "view posts" for each user, go back 10 pages and see what date the oldest post is. The ones with the most recent posts are the ones who have posted most often.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: feedback on the site
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2010, 02:14:31 pm »
I like the + / - idea. If everybody thinks Peter spouts excessive shite, then it will rapidly demote his output. Or otherwise.

Chris.

What will possibly result is a "war" of ratings between different factions. That's not very friendly.