Author Topic: Fidelity: request for input  (Read 1372 times)

Offline antmcc

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2017, 04:34:40 pm »
If I have a picture of Castro on my computer, do I have Fidel IT? :shrug:

Online paul

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2017, 05:34:07 pm »
Global Moderator Comment Let's finish with the jokes etc. and at least try and answer the question. This is not in 'Idle Chat'.
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Online The Old Ruminator

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2017, 06:09:32 pm »
I  did try Global Mod. I really did.   :bow:

Online The Old Ruminator

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2017, 06:11:51 pm »
Perhaps the insincere answers reveal more about fidelity in the caving world than we might like to think.

Online Oceanrower

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2017, 06:14:26 pm »
I'll try, Paul.

But, to be honest, I don't even understand the question!

Online The Old Ruminator

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2017, 06:36:35 pm »
William Wordsworth's take on fidelity.

"A shepherd is astonished to see a little dog which is barking in a very unusual manner among rocks and fern in the mountainous region.  He wonders how the strange little dog could be there all alone in the deserted cave-like rocky mountainous region far from any human habitation.  The only other sign of liveliness that the shepherd could spot in the isolated region was that of a fish jumping out of a pool of water and a raven cawing.  It seems as if the sun’s rays and the howling wind are trying to rush past the region and seem trapped there.  The shepherd has a faint suspicion of foreboding and hurriedly follows the dog across the rocky terrain and is shocked to see a human skeleton lying on the ground.  The shepherd then realizes that it was the skeleton of Charles Gough and even remembers the day the tragic accident occurred.  The dog had stayed by the side of Charles Gough for 3 months in the difficult terrain.  The incident depicts the enduring affection that dogs display which surpasses that of human beings."

Well it does mention somebody called Gough and a cave.

This is not an insincere answer Mr or Mrs Mod.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2017, 06:45:22 pm »
Please do not submit anything that you are unwilling to have partly or wholly repeated, in print, credited or not according to your wish.

Here's an offering:

The more experience and insights one gains, the more Fidelity veers entirely from the camaraderie and infectious socialising towards a focussed concern for the solitude and sanctity of the beauty of the pristine geology, unpopulated and therefore protected. 

Offline Mark

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2017, 07:36:21 pm »
Let's finish with the jokes etc. and at least try and answer the question. This is not in 'Idle Chat'.

No its in "Caving in The Media. Book/DVD reviews etc" ???

Online The Old Ruminator

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2017, 07:44:08 pm »
The lonely road to Nirvana good Captain Chris.
The profound peace of mind found solo mud sloshing in Grebe Swallet . Fidelity, Self awareness , Nirvana.

"The more experience and insights one gains, the more Fidelity veers entirely from the camaraderie and infectious socialising towards a focussed concern for the solitude and sanctity of the beauty of the pristine geology, unpopulated and therefore protected.  "
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 07:54:18 pm by The Old Ruminator »

Online paul

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 07:53:29 pm »
Let's finish with the jokes etc. and at least try and answer the question. This is not in 'Idle Chat'.

No its in "Caving in The Media. Book/DVD reviews etc" ???

And Kenilworth says in hist post above: "I am in the process of writing an extended essay on the topic of fidelity, both in general and as it relates to caves, caving culture, and the larger natural world." and asks his question in relation to this. I see no problem.
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2017, 08:23:23 pm »
A couple of thoughts:
One definition is: "faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support."  So could that also imply some sort of contract, perhaps either psychological or financial?  E.g. paying club membership fees could imply fidelity to that club.  Or perhaps agreeing to meet up each Tuesday to go digging is a sort od psychological contract and also faithfulness (fidelity) to that group.

Another definition is: "the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced."  So could that imply consistent quality (and by implication safety) of something more practical such as rope work, ladder rigging, etc.? 

Offline pwhole

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2017, 09:26:17 pm »
I think without a little more clarification from Kenilworth as to the context of the 'fidelity', it's going to be difficult to know how to approach a piece of writing, especially as I wasn't planning to do it. If we can't discuss here what fidelity actually means, then I suspect it's not going to go very far. I would imagine that the second definition - the 'degree of exactness' would be the more logical choice in the context of cave exploration/description.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2017, 12:15:48 am »
Let's finish with the jokes etc. and at least try and answer the question. This is not in 'Idle Chat'.

No its in "Caving in The Media. Book/DVD reviews etc" ???

And Kenilworth says in hist post above: "I am in the process of writing an extended essay on the topic of fidelity, both in general and as it relates to caves, caving culture, and the larger natural world." and asks his question in relation to this. I see no problem.

Ok, back to the question - no piss taking, Do you know what he's after. I don't. "caves, caving culture, and the larger natural world" can be anything. What does it even mean? Everything we could possibly encounter?  If you got that question in an exam, your heart would sink. What version of fidelity are we going with? Faithfulness to a person, cause or belief? Or accuracy in reproduction?

Until we know what is requested, we may as well take the piss, in traditional British fashion.

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2017, 01:00:01 am »
I wished to be as vague as possible in order to see what directions individuals' thoughts might run. This suits my purpose. I should have clarified though that I mean fidelity of the first dictionary sense of faithfulness. I posted in this section because I couldn't think of a better one. This work will be included in a print publication so I reckon that's close enough.

Offline cooleycr

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2017, 11:12:11 am »
Hi there Kenilworth..

I have spent the past three years working on a mine shaft restoration project.
Although we are all volunteers, and come from all walks of life, both professionally and socially, I have every faith in the rest of the team and trust them implicitly.
During this time I could easily have gone off to do some "proper caving", but I remained true to the cause, turning up most weekends in all weather..

I was faithful to the cause.

Does this count?

Charley.

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2017, 11:16:44 am »
Fidelity can be seen as the art of narrating a story as truthfully or accurately as possible. Certainly there are many cave exploration histories  lacking. fidelity. We now know that the first person to pass the Long Crawl in Dan yr Ogof was not Eileen Davies but all the popular historical accounts lack this fidelity. People may embellish accounts to suit their own purposes. I am currently in the process of writing as faithful a history of the exploration of a cave as I can but even that account will be viewed through the eyes and minds   of the people who wrote the logs (which date back to the day the cave was first entered) and I am sure that when I get to my role in it it my fidelity may well be questioned. Some times fidelity may be discarded for the sake of writing a good story - journalists (nothing personal David) are good at this. The book Is that So contains some excellent tales but I am sure the fidelity to detail might well be lacking!

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Fidelity: request for input
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2017, 03:45:35 pm »
I appreciate these responses. They include a few things I hadn't thought of.
Interestingly, I have had only one response (and a very good one) from American cavers. This is partly due to the smaller audience I was able to reach, but I also believe that this concept is just as foreign to US cavers, if not more so, than it is to UK ones. If anyone has any more to say, I would love to have it soon, as I'm setting down the sequence of my material and arguments for a first draft.