Learning from our mistakes.....

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
It's been suggested we start a thread, passing on tips and ideas to help the next generation of cavers.

What's obvious to the more experienced caver may not have occurred to someone new to the sport, may not have been pointed out - or if it has not yet taken on board....we all learn in many varied ways, hopefully reading a cautionary tale on UKC may pass on some caving wisdom  :)

One of my first SRT trips was down Bar Pot.  I went down first and was barely a couple of meters above the bottom of the first pitch when my hair got caught in my rack (yes it was a long time ago!).  It hurt like hell.  I didn't have my up gear on (something I never do these days) and I couldn't stop myself slowly creeping down the rope, my hair getting more entangled....urrgh it was awful.  Those above me couldn't help, no I didn't have a knife and despite frantically trying to stop myself slipping down the rope further, I couldn't.  I didn't know what to do.

....and then from below two cavers appeared.  They quickly saw what the problem was, one sat me on his shoulders and the other untangled my rack and hair - grateful doesn't cover it., if you happen to be reading this, once again, thank you, Guys  (y) (y) (y)

So my advice is tie your hair back, out of the way of your descender and personally I don't abseil without my prussiking gear on (I know plenty on here will and maybe I'm over cautious however the above episode left a lasting impression, so up gear it is for me  ;) ).







 

Ian Ball

Well-known member
After falling onto my cowstails from being an inch or so above a not particularly tight traverse line, I put more stock in a not so long set of cowstails, properly scared me.

What is the best hair style to fit long hair into a helmet?  I have no idea though when asked I suggest a buff based on caving with a few buff wearing women.

Another little suggestion I was given was to inspect behind you on the way in, so you can more easily find the way out when you are returning.

My favourite piece of advice though was "buy kneepads"
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
If people say "You'll be alright", especially confronted with something unpleasantly mendippy go straight to pub.
 

topcat

Active member
When going solo, be quick to remove SRT kit for the tight bits.  It is less likely to snag under you where you can't quite reach it if it is in a tackle sack......

...but don't drop your tackle sack containing your SRT kit down a tight rift.........

Both events could leave you twiddling your thumbs for quite a long time  :-[
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
On a more serious note (rare for me) read up on the cave, take a mars bar or similar, and a spare light. Until not so long ago an AA Maglite was fixed to the side of my lid for many years ((now a Fenix LED thing), although the Maglite is still fine unlike some other LEDs i've had).
Take it at your own pace and enjoy yourself.  Caving is not an SAS trial of fire led by failed traffic wardens.  It is about exploring and personal achievement on your own terms. Also take a look around there's lots to see, my very early trips were probably more focussed on getting in and out and ticking things off.  There's even some very nice bits in Goatchurch.
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Learn from the mistakes of others: better still, fast track from the distillation of something in the region of 200 instructor-years of experience by attending (without assessment) the BCA award training.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Get the balance right between following the advice of experienced people and working things out for yourself. Both are important (and the latter makes for progress).
 

tamarmole

Active member
Pegasus said:
It's been suggested we start a thread, passing on tips and ideas to help the next generation of cavers.

What's obvious to the more experienced caver may not have occurred to someone new to the sport, may not have been pointed out - or if it has not yet taken on board....we all learn in many varied ways, hopefully reading a cautionary tale on UKC may pass on some caving wisdom  :)

One of my first SRT trips was down Bar Pot.  I went down first and was barely a couple of meters above the bottom of the first pitch when my hair got caught in my rack (yes it was a long time ago!).  It hurt like hell.  I didn't have my up gear on (something I never do these days) and I couldn't stop myself slowly creeping down the rope, my hair getting more entangled....urrgh it was awful.  Those above me couldn't help, no I didn't have a knife and despite frantically trying to stop myself slipping down the rope further, I couldn't.  I didn't know what to do.

....and then from below two cavers appeared.  They quickly saw what the problem was, one sat me on his shoulders and the other untangled my rack and hair - grateful doesn't cover it., if you happen to be reading this, once again, thank you, Guys  (y) (y) (y)

So my advice is tie your hair back, out of the way of your descender and personally I don't abseil without my prussiking gear on (I know plenty on here will and maybe I'm over cautious however the above episode left a lasting impression, so up gear it is for me  ;) ).

I've been in a pretty similar situation 10m down a 40m shaft.  My hair got sucked into my rack.  Fortunately I noticed and stopped (I use a micro rack with a hyper bar - v easy to lock off securely) and locked off before things got too catastrophic.  I reasoned that I had a number of options :

(1)  I did have my up gear on, however I reasoned that doing a change over would scalp me.
(2)  I carry a knife, I quickly ruled this out, the potential consequences of wielding a sharp knife in close vicinity to a loaded 10mm rope whilst I was on said rope 30m above the floor don't bear thinking of.
(3)  Tearing my hair out.  Painful but this is the option I went for.

I now keep a buff for srt, keeps the hair well out of the way.

If I was in the situation where I couldn't lock off and was continuing to slide as per the original post the best option might have been to try a leg wrap with the free end of the rope.
 

MarkS

Moderator
Great idea for a topic. Well done whoever suggested it.

A very specific piece of advice that springs to mind is to never abseil with your safety-link & footloop dangling below you. If it gets caught on anything without you realising, it provides a nasty surprise and a tricky situation to extract yourself from...not that I'd know :-[ (https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=9221)

I'd also second Pitlamp's advice above. (y)
 

caving_fox

Active member
So my advice is tie your hair back, out of the way of your descender and personally I don't abseil without my prussiking gear on

I'm also an advocate of this, because at the very least it ensures you have your up gear with you and haven't inadvertently left it by the car. Swapping gear around between team members on the return becomes quite awkward on any but the simplest of pitches. not me  :halo: (yet!)

Another little suggestion I was given was to inspect behind you on the way in, so you can more easily find the way out when you are returning.

Even (especially) if you're not leading and don't know the cave. Learn landmarks!
 

Katie

Active member
I am another one who has learnt about keeping hair out of the way the hard way.....
Many years ago I had my (very long) hair tied in a pony tail and was abseiling down the Titan entrance shaft. I was looking down past my right leg and my pony tail got sucked into my rack by my left shoulder. I was probably about 10m down, so 40m of the floor.
It was my entire pony tail so ripping out my hair wasn't an option - similarly using a knife would have been very dangerous as I had limited head movement so couldn't really see the stuck hair, or rope running through the rack right next to it!
However I had my up gear on and managed to get my hand jammer on the rope above me one handed, whilst trying not to let my hair slip anything further into the rack with my other hand.....
Then I stood in footloop pulling up 40m rope just on my hair - however this gave me the slack needed to wiggle my hair out of the rack, without leaving too much of it behind!
Now I just try not to let my hair get long enough that it becomes a problem even tied back, and am still wary when abseiling about leaning close to the rack and turning my head so my hair is near it....

 

2xw

Active member
Here's a bit of a niche one for any budding cave biologists...


I was collecting spider samples in Stoney Middleton, specifically Yoga Cave. To do this I used a "kill jar" - a jar full of ethyl acetate. I squeezed into one of the entrances to yoga cave, found a spider, opened my kill jar, breathed in toxic fumes in an enclosed space, nearly passed out, and, seeing stars, the spider subsequently fell into my beard/mouth, I squirmed out in somewhat of a panic.

So don't do that. This advice also applies to people using bang (caps included) or any sort of noxious substance (nail varnish) including your mate who had a curry the night before!
 

paul

Moderator
On a trip to Eldon Hole many years ago, one of our group attached his descender to the rope, leaned back and set off down the South Gully route.

He had only gone a metre and a half, luckily, when we heard "rip-rip-rip".

Glancing down at his descender, he spotted that it was still attached to the gear loop on his harness, and the "rip" noises were the stitching breaking!!!

Luckily he managed to grab the rope and with an adrenaline surge, pull himself back onto the ledge at the top.

Always clip gear where it should be, ready for use, both ascenders and descenders. Always do the central maillon (or alternative) up ready and safe as soon as you put your harness on.
 

Mike Hopley

New member
The worst mistakes I've made were when I was distracted.

For example, I was kitting up for SRT at Pant Mawr, with a relative beginner who talks at a million miles an hour. She needed advice on how to put on her kit, and asked me just as I was putting on my harness. I was also tired from lack of sleep. With the constant babble of words, my head was spinning. As I leaned out over the edge on my descender, something didn't feel right -- something about how my weight shifted in the harness, and maybe an unexpected sound -- I couldn't tell what exactly, but it made me worry enough to check. Which is when I saw my harness maillon was undone.

What did I learn? Be very careful about when you help other people. Don't let them distract you at a vital moment; and try to be aware of when you are being distracted. I have also made a effort to get into the habit of buddy checks, which is not something I see often among cavers.


Pegasus said:
So my advice is tie your hair back, out of the way of your descender and personally I don't abseil without my prussiking gear on (I know plenty on here will and maybe I'm over cautious however the above episode left a lasting impression, so up gear it is for me  ;) ).

In my view you are not being over-cautious. There are many reasons you might need to change direction quickly mid-pitch. If someone abseils without their ascending gear ready-to-use, then they lack basic competence.
 

Lurker

Member
paul said:
Always do the central maillon (or alternative) up ready and safe as soon as you put your harness on.

Making sure your central maillon is done up was drilled into me from the outset. Once however, I failed to notice that I hadn't actually looped it through both sides of the harness... that felt very wonky indeed. Not recommended.
 

topcat

Active member
Centre maillons / krabs........be consistent in what you use.

I had two harnesses and one had an auto locking Petzl Omni , the other a manual screw gate.  I'd been working a tight cave over a few days, taking my auto lock harness on and off many times.  So far so good.

Next time I used the manual locking one I sub consciously treated it as an auto locker and rigged the Goblin Shaft route in Sell Gill [ and came back out the same way] without ever having done the screw gate up....

I still have two harnesses, but both have the same manual locking screw gate Omnis.
 

Kenilworth

New member
The most important thing I've learned, from unfortunate experience, is that it is dangerous to assume that unfamiliar companions have any particular abilities. Something that may be easy for you may be difficult or impossible, for physical or psychological reasons, for someone else. If the cave involves exposed climbing or awkward squeezes or srt or swimming etc etc, and you are not personally familiar with the skills of those in your party, prepare yourself to deal with possible complications.

 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
We don't have a nice SRT setup at uni, so we teach it in trees. I have in the past, when particularly hungover tired, thrown a rope over a branch and ascended up to rig it properly, only to find that I've forgotten to put my descender on my harness. I've had to either down-prussik or abseil on an Italian hitch, but both bugger up the rope a bit, and it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in those that you're teaching.

So, in agreement with Pegasus's post, if you're going down then it's probably a good move to bring your up stuff, and if you're going up then it's definitely a good idea to bring your down stuff (y)

Something that I see a lot in the novices that I'm teaching is that they will be tying their hand-ascender-tether/foot-loop rope, and connect the middle loop to their central maillon, with the foot-loop coming off one end, and hand ascender coming off the other. This isn't a problem until they put their chest ascender on the rope, jump up and down a bit to get the slack through, and then can't use their hand ascender to ascend or to unweight their chest ascender. If I was nicer I'd tell them about this before they did it, but it seems like too good a learning experience to pass up :LOL:
 
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