Censorship on these forums

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prahja

Member
If moderators choose to delete posts, please could they inform the thread that posts have been deleted and why. Deletions are happening regularly and many discussions no longer make sense unless you realise that posters are referring to deleted posts. Maybe we could have large black lines through opinions that moderators deem too dangerous for us to see.

Cheers,
Andy

 
bubba

bubba

Administrator
When posts are deleted moderators should be editing other posts to keep the sense of the topic going.

Which particular topics are you referring to? The only thing that has been deleted recently was a duplicate topic regarding the Independent's Mossdale article and some stupid personal abuse between two forum members.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
prahja said:
If moderators choose to delete posts, please could they inform the thread that posts have been deleted and why. Deletions are happening regularly and many discussions no longer make sense unless you realise that posters are referring to deleted posts. Maybe we could have large black lines through opinions that moderators deem too dangerous for us to see.

Cheers,
Andy
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bubba

bubba

Administrator
As Chris has just demonstrated, it wouldn't work because you can still see what was posted. I can't imagine that anyone would really want lines of pure unreadable type - what's the point?
 
H

hoehlenforscher

Guest
I think he may have been referring to a heated reply by someone concerning the DYO rescue. i definitely read it but it is now gone
 
P

prahja

Member
Black lines - I didn't mean strikethrough - I was alluding to the thick black lines on official censorship of documents.

The most recent posts have been the comments over the DYO rescue. A simple statement saying that posts had been deleted would have been courteous. There have been a number of other posts deleted recently - I remember the ones over the CRO comments - an explanation was posted then by the moderator (however, I think leaving the posts up would have been effective in showing the opinions of the poster to be silly and he should be able to express non-offensive views, even if they are daft).

What I am saying is that I do not like the idea of censorship. If it is to happen (and I appreciate that you are paying for this board and hence can do what you want) then I would request that a post is made acknowledging it and stating that posts have been removed. Otherwise one is always left wondering what has been deleted and why.

Cheers,
Andy
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
prahja said:
Black lines - I didn't mean strikethrough - I was alluding to the thick black lines on official censorship of documents.
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Doesn't appear to be a feature available.

Not sure about the "reasons why" idea in the OP either, since (a) it could require essays and (b) would only encourage discussion/counter-argument.
 
bubba

bubba

Administrator
prahja said:
Black lines - I didn't mean strikethrough - I was alluding to the thick black lines on official censorship of documents.
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There is absolutely no point in having posts containing a load of black lines.

prahja said:
The most recent posts have been the comments over the DYO rescue. A simple statement saying that posts had been deleted would have been courteous.
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Those posts contained childish personal abuse which is against the forum rules. Surely it was pretty obvious why they had been removed?

prahja said:
What I am saying is that I do not like the idea of censorship. If it is to happen (and I appreciate that you are paying for this board and hence can do what you want) then I would request that a post is made acknowledging it and stating that posts have been removed. Otherwise one is always left wondering what has been deleted and why.
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I don't know how many forums you post on that don't have moderation (call it censorship if you like), but in my experience they always end up as completely worthless and unpleasant places to be.

It's not really practical to make a post every time something has been moderated. It would make many topics unreadable. Some moderation i've done would result in a topic where there were as many "post deleted" posts as there were actual posts.

 
kay

kay

Well-known member
prahja said:
What I am saying is that I do not like the idea of censorship. If it is to happen (and I appreciate that you are paying for this board and hence can do what you want) then I would request that a post is made acknowledging it and stating that posts have been removed. Otherwise one is always left wondering what has been deleted and why.

Cheers,
Andy
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To refer to removal of offensive and threatening posts as censorship, while strictly accurate, is a bit strong and gives the wrong impression of what happens here. But I agree I prefer an indication that a post has been removed (not a separate statement for every removed post, just a single statement that some posts in the thread had been deleted), partly because it stops me thinking I'm going gaga, and partly because it is a reminder that someone is upholding reasonable standards of civil behaviour.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Yep - removed the rather offensive comments from one member and the retort of a couple of others in the dyo thread this morning. Personal attack is against the UKc forums usage policy.

Its *moderation*, not censorship.

and FYI the thread as I left it, still made perfect sense.

I PM'd those involved and cc'd bubba.

I had replies from both parties concerned, who where quite happy that their post had been removed. Heat of the moments stuff that I dont think either party really meant at the time.

So, Please kindly remove the bee from your bonnet, get down off you high horse and

"Carm down dear, its only a forum" as micheal winner once might have said.
 
bubba

bubba

Administrator
I've unlocked this again for the time being as it was merely discussion of moderation policy which is allowed.

What isn't allowed is public discussion of moderation decisions which is why the other topic is gone.
 
graham

graham

New member
It's perfectly fair enough that the somewhat heated comments have been removed and that their authors have been consulted directly about this.

It won't stop the wider caving community taking the piss, though, as those on my club's mailing list will have recently been made aware. ;)
 
P

prahja

Member
Please could you add my comment that was arbitrarily deleted. I really do find that deletion rather confusing.
I posted on a topic that related to this thread being locked in mid-conversation.

I said:

---8<----


Referring to the censorship topic:


> So, Please kindly remove the bee from your bonnet, get down off you high horse and

> "Carm down dear, its only a forum" as micheal winner once might have said.

> Topic locked.

I believed that we were having a reasoned, calm discussion about the conduct of moderation on the forums. I did not realise that we were being abusive or getting heated. I am rather annoyed that the topic was deemed not appropriate to be discussed by the moderators and needed to be arbitrarily locked. I suspect that the comments above and the action of locking the topic speaks far more eloquently about the behaviour of the moderators than my comments ever could.

Cheers,
Andy
---8<----

Why is this so offensive that it needs expunging from the board ?


 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
ah jeez..  o_O

Im just fecking well fed up of it.


I locked the topic because I couldnt be arsed/dont have the time to be writing replies like this.

To be honest - Im just getting bloody well fed up of constantly having to justify ourselves to one party or another.

I haven't got the time. I constantly risk getting into trouble at work, and at home just trying to keep abreast of the new topics,replies. Let alone replying to the ones Im interested in.
Let a bloody well lone moderating peoples petty personal beefs/abuse/trolling, then having to fecking well justify it to a whole host other busy bodies who think that UKc is some god given right.

I seriously discussed with bubba, taking the whole site down for a few days with a front page banner telling people that we couldn't be arsed any more.

Clearly a bit childish in hindsight - but indicative of the way me, bubs and underground where feeling at the time.

So will you just shut up, go away and leave the mods alone to get on with their job.

I could ban you for 24 hours, just cause your pissing me off. but Im not going to - cause I'd probably get a whole heap of annoying shit from a few other "freedom of speech" nazi's

Why dont you find a topic to write some constructive comments on, Start a topic about a cave your intersted in and just stop bloody well moaning about the mods.
 
P

prahja

Member
bubba said:
It wasn't offensive, there's just no need for two topics talking about the same thing.
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I had little option, since the topic was locked.

Where else should I post a reply to Sam's comments ? Since the thread was arbitrarily locked, silencing any reply or further discussion of the topic.

Unfortunately the actions of the moderators really reinforce the observations I made originally:

1) My post was arbitrarily deleted (?censored) and contained no offensive content.
2) A topic was arbitrarily locked with no opportunity to carry on discussing information that I don't believe was offensive or contentious.

I really appreciate the work that the maintainers of this site do.
I am just concerned that suggestions on the management of the censorship/moderation/insert verb of choice are treated in this way by the moderators. It just reinforces my concerns over the deletions in other threads. And I am not talking about spats between individuals. If you read my comments, I am not suggesting they are not removed, I am suggesting that deletions are acknowledged.

Cheers,
Andy



 
P

prahja

Member
SamT said:
I could ban you for 24 hours, just cause your pissing me off. but Im not going to - cause I'd probably get a whole heap of annoying shit from a few other "freedom of speech" nazi's
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I really think that that is an accurate precis of my arguments. You have convinced me not to post further on this topic, or indeed on this forum.
Bye.

Cheers,
Andy
 
Stu

Stu

Active member
prahja said:
SamT said:
I could ban you for 24 hours, just cause your pissing me off. but Im not going to - cause I'd probably get a whole heap of annoying shit from a few other "freedom of speech" nazi's
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I really think that that is an accurate precis of my arguments. You have convinced me not to post further on this topic, or indeed on this forum.
Bye.

Cheers,
Andy
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How? How has his NOT banning you proved anything.... oh wait, you've gone!
 
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