1989 Lancaster Hole death

langcliffe

Well-known member
Descent 198's list of caving fatalities includes an entry for 4th August 1989 where an unnamed female is reported to have died after falling down the Lancaster Hole entrance pitch. I can find no further reference to this, anywhere.

Does anybody have any further information about this incident?
 

Beardy

Member
this may help or confuse

https://cro.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/CRO-Incidents-1997-2000-compressed.pdf

beardy
 

mikem

Well-known member
May just be a mistake, as nothing listed for that date (or any other time) on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities

& most of them are referenced from Descent.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
mikem said:
May just be a mistake, as nothing listed for that date (or any other time) on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities

& most of them are referenced from Descent.

I suspect that might have something to do with the original question as Langcliffe appears to be updating that particular Wikipedia entry...
 

mikem

Well-known member
The details given do seem to be a combination of Aug 96 (3rd Aug, female) & May 97 (Lancaster entrance fall)...
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
May just be a mistake, as nothing listed for that date (or any other time) on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities

& most of them are referenced from Descent.

Thanks. As Pete Hall says, I have been largely responsible for that Wikipedia  page (as much as one person can be responsible for a Wikipedia page), so its absence from that page means little.  The entries in there have all been verified by and are all referenced with contemporaneous accounts (such as newspaper reports and Descent).

This one incident in Chris Howes' list is one that I can find no supporting reference for. If I could, it would appear in the Wikipedia list (I have actually added two entries to that list in the past few days, corrected the name of one casualty, and associated a name with another incident).

This incident is a mystery...
 

Ian Ball

Well-known member
Caving Fatalities in the UK
Following an enquiry concerning a possible caving fatality in the 1930s, it proved surprisingly difficult to pull together data for all known incidents, including those that pre-dated the formation of the cave rescue teams. Here is the result of the research.



Not that I am being rude, but perhaps the difficulty mentioned in the Descent 198 synopsis is a cause of the issue?
 

mikem

Well-known member
It is suspicious that two consecutive entries in the list cover ALL the salient points (one being the ONLY fatal fall recorded in Lancaster Hole & the other being one of only three falls involving women in the Dales - plus police reported it on 4th Aug).

The Descent article could easily have found an incorrect reference from somewhere else.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Ian Ball said:
Caving Fatalities in the UK
Following an enquiry concerning a possible caving fatality in the 1930s, it proved surprisingly difficult to pull together data for all known incidents, including those that pre-dated the formation of the cave rescue teams. Here is the result of the research.



Not that I am being rude, but perhaps the difficulty mentioned in the Descent 198 synopsis is a cause of the issue?

I think that those problems have been largely resolved. The main difficulty has been in identifying the deaths early in the twentieth century. But since access to contemporaneous accounts has been made so much easier with the internet the problem has been much reduced. If one takes Chris's example of the doubts about the fatalities in the Alderley Edge mines, for example, I have searched the relevant newspapers for that area, and found only one fatality that wasn't in the Descent list (Leslie Hunt, 1948).  There may still be missing incidents, but over time they will be identified.

I have also been able to associate names with all those incidents that Chris was unable to.

The 1989 Lancaster Hole incident, however, should be easier. To some of us, it wasn't so long ago.  But when no one who was around at the time remembers it, and it didn't appear in Descent, and it doesn't readily  pop up in contemporaneous newspaper reports, one can only scratch one's head.

Anyway, I have now asked Chris if he has a reference, although I was hoping not to bother him (we all want Descent out on time). He says he'll have a look after his latest deadlines.

It won't appear in the Wikipedia list until it has been verified.
 

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
I note Descent 90 for Oct /Nov 1989 states on p7 under reports from the North / "Odds 'N' Ends" that "The only rescue news is of three dislocated shoulders on the bank holiday weekend".  And in Descent 91 for Dec 1989 / Jan 1990 states on p12 under reports from the North / "Rescue News" that "Thankfully there is little to report in this area except for a few broken legs on the fells and a party lost in the upper reaches of the Ease Gill".

However, in Descent 94 June/July 1990 an article on p32/entitled "The incidents of 1989" there is a summary table which lists under surface incidents one fatality in the CRO area.  There is an observation that the only underground fatality was in Jib Tunnel.  The text relating to surface incidents makes no comment on the one fatality.  So my guess is the fatality was a surface event.

I have looked up wikipedia list and it does not record such an event, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities though I am unsure if that 'surface' fatalities.  (For example, I can't find the 1995 Gaping Gill scout tragedy.)

Have you tried checking local newspaper resources?
 

mikem

Well-known member
Considering the newspaper clipping that Langcliffe posted up the other day, it's interesting to note that Alderley Edge has more deaths than Alum Pot, the majority being under 18 years old (& a similar incident having happened 2 years before the coroner made his remarks).

I do think the "deliberately" in Mabel Binks account makes it sound like someone was trying to hit them though!

Langcliffe, have you seen recently compiled History of Mendip Cave Rescues & Incidents:
https://www.mcra.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=articles:start
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Bob Mehew said:
I have looked up wikipedia list and it does not record such an event, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities though I am unsure if that 'surface' fatalities.  (For example, I can't find the 1995 Gaping Gill scout tragedy.)

Have you tried checking local newspaper resources?

The reason why that death isn't included in the Wikipedia list (and also the various walkers who have fallen down shafts at various times), is that it is not considered to a death resulting from recreational caving. Such decisions are somewhat arbitrary and open to debate.

I have consulted the newspaper resources that are readily accessible, but I do have the incident on my long list of things to check in the Craven Herald next time I visit Skipton Library.
 

Jopo

Active member
I think the incident in Jib Tunnel should be regarded as caving. According to the reports of the civil action taken by the boys family against the landowner,
Several scouts had apparently explored Jib Tunnel before the fatal accident.
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8048916.landowner-cleared-of-blame-in-death-fall/
A fall from the edge of a shaft is not caving but I think entering a horizontal tunnel, albeit with a inadequate light, is exploring.
My first underground experience was with a single candle in a old mine above a campsite in the FoD with 2 other 14 year olds.

Jopo
 

mikem

Well-known member
Jib Tunnel is in the list, it's the 1989 surface incident that isn't (& Scout at Gaping Gill in 1995).

My first underground experience was with a single candle in a old mine above a campsite in the FoD with 2 other 14 year olds.
The horizontal passage at back of Biblin's riverside campsite, or one of the ones higher up the hill?
 

mikem

Well-known member
For anyone who is interested, BCRC summaries are available from 2004 onwards:
https://www.caverescue.org.uk/about-cave-rescue/incident-reports/
 

JAA

Active member
Unrelated to the topic really but Bentham fire station has its old ?Occurences Book? where they used to write down the details of incidents. There?s a few quite interesting entries relating to cave rescues and press cuttings.
The same book at Hawes contains the records of NYFB actions at the Langstroth Pot fatalities in the 70?s. Quite interesting in a geeky way.
 

Jopo

Active member
mikem said:
Jib Tunnel is in the list, it's the 1989 surface incident that isn't (& Scout at Gaping Gill in 1995).

My first underground experience was with a single candle in a old mine above a campsite in the FoD with 2 other 14 year olds.
The horizontal passage at back of Biblin's riverside campsite, or one of the ones higher up the hill?

The ones higher up the hill Mikem. Found them quite awesome.

Jopo
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
langcliffe said:
Descent 198's list of caving fatalities includes an entry for 4th August 1989 where an unnamed female is reported to have died after falling down the Lancaster Hole entrance pitch. I can find no further reference to this, anywhere.

Does anybody have any further information about this incident?

Just to keep people informed, Chris Howes couldn't help and suspects that the entry may be spurious. Jack Pickup, who was the CRO controller at the time, remembers a female caver falling 12 metres after losing control when abseiling down the entrance pitch of Lancaster Hole on April 2nd 1989. But that is not the date given in Descent, and the casualty was just a bit battered and bruised.

So all in all, it appears that the fatality did not happen. Thank you to those who offered their ideas.
 
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