Gaping Gill..'winch without a winch' meet 2021

skippy

Active member
Greetings cavers.
Similar to our meet in 2020, the Craven Pothole Club are planning another meet centred on Gaping Gill from 14th August to 22nd August 2021 and we would like to welcome all cavers to join us for day visits.

There will be no winch in operation, therefore attending cavers must have SRT experience.  We will rig multiple entrances (predominately the trade routes) and there will be a CPC a 'presence' on the fell to guide numbers etc. Some entrances will be rigged and available on Saturday 14th. We will be derigging on the 22nd, so availability will be reduced. 3rd party liability insurance is a requirement for all cavers, and this has been requested from the estate.

Unfortunately, camping for guests is not permitted. Only members of the CPC have been given permission to camp so day visits only. However, there are campsites in the vicinity of the local villages and caving huts are starting to open up.

Come and say ?Hi?, let us know your intensions and enjoy some faff free caving.. but please arrange your own call out. Be prepared to be flexible in what you do (or wait a while to allow separation between parties).
Further details will be made available prior to the start of the meet and updated during the course of the week.
See you there,
Glenn Costin,
Assistant Secretary,
Craven Pothole Club.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Skippy/CPC/all

While I applaud your efforts and the fundamental idea behind this I feel obliged to comment on this requirement,

"3rd party liability insurance is a requirement for all cavers, and this has been requested from the estate."

This now excludes some cavers in an area where we at CNCC, and me specifically as access officer, fought long and hard to open up access for all cavers.  I can go walking, scrambling, fell running, climbing, mountain biking, horse riding etc on Ingleborough without insurance but now I need third party insurance to go recreational caving?  Our freedom of access should have been robustly defended if it was requested by the estate as they do not place that requirement on any other recreational activity.

Additionally, your club, CNCC and BCA all supported the campaign to accept that the Countryside and Rights of Way Act included caving.  BCA, supported by CNCC and your club voted to accept official policy that states a belief the CRoW Act already applies to caving.  Therefore, on access land like Ingleborough, there should be no restrictions placed on recreational cavers such as a need for insurance.

I hope you will reconsider this restriction and renegotiate with the estate as this could herald a slippery slope back to old ways of thinking.  If you are unable to do this perhaps you would make it clear that your 'winch without a winch' meet does not have exclusive access for the caves of Gaping Gill (unless you have a direction to do so).

I've written to CNCC to make these points but they do not have a meeting until October, hence I wanted to open my view more widely.  Feel free to contact me privately if that would help.

 

mikem

Well-known member
Organised events are not covered by crow act, so requirements can be different. Any cavers wanting to go up & use own ropes are still free to do so, but may find other groups using them.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
Organised events are not covered by crow act, so requirements can be different. Any cavers wanting to go up & use own ropes are still free to do so, but may find other groups using them.

I don't think that is true. You are not allowed to "play organised games", but I'm not convinced that the facilities being offered by the CPC would qualify as "organised games". One is also not allowed to "run commercial activities on the land", but the CPC are not charging for the use of their ropes.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Depends how lawyers end up defining games - caving did come under the Sports Council. However, the club are camping, which is the next clause & it's normally arranged to make a profit.
 

AndyP

New member
Excellent news  :clap:

Unfortunately we won't be able to get there until the last day on 22nd August. Any ideas what'll still be rigged on that day ?
 

Ian P

Administrator
Staff member
AndyP said:
Excellent news  :clap:

Unfortunately we won't be able to get there until the last day on 22nd August. Any ideas what'll still be rigged on that day ?

Obviously Sunday is ?derigging day?, so all the ?less used? routes will probably be out on Saturday.  Subject to members (and day visitors ??) available the ?main? routes at least will hopefully all still be in on the Sunday (eg. Stream, flood, Bar, Dihedral). Obviously all subject to the weather, man power etc. The aim will be to keep as much caving available as possible.  Updates will of course  be posted on here, however the definitive source of information will be the ?check in? tent by the shake hole. 
 

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
I'm hoping to use dihedral the following weekend, so if you are putting things back in stores and realise something is missing I can check the bottom of the route for any stray items (missing maillons, reading glasses, false teeth, pound coins, etc etc) if you PM me
 

caving_fox

Active member
How's the Mud Hall traverse at the moment? Passable with care or still blocked off?

Does Disappointment count as a trade route?
(Weather allowing there's some heavy rain around this week, but hopefully it will dry up a bit soon).
 
Mud Hall Traverse: we dug the rope out last summer and it was passable with care then. Not been in Mud hall since.
Dis: it is on our list to consider rigging. We'll see how things (and ropes) go. It hasn't had a lot of use and might need a bit of clearing....
We'll post updates on availability of routes from Friday.
 
As of Friday we have Stream, Christmas Pot (not Grange Rigg), Hurnel Moss, Bar Main and SE Aven/Small Mammal  Dihedral rigged. Others will follow soon. If you wish to use our rigging BCA inzurance (or equivalent) is required.
We might even be able.to offer a brew!
Come and say hello
(We've already had a visiting team)
The weather looks quite settled.
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
HardenClimber3 said:
If you wish to use our rigging BCA inzurance (or equivalent) is required.

BCA membership, I think you mean. BCA don't provide insurance, they're not brokers.

Also, IIRC, even non-members are now insured by dint of the reinterpretation of CRoW. You're covered for caving by BCA even if you're not in it, provided you're caving. Good news. So, arguably, you don't need it to use the rigging. Thricely hurrahs.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
I find it sad that when a club puts so much effort into helping to provide facilities for their fellow cavers, that some people's response is so damned negative.

Can I put on record my gratitude to the Craven Pothole Club for what they are doing this year, and for what they did last year?
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
langcliffe said:
I find it sad that when a club puts so much effort into helping to provide facilities for their fellow cavers, that some people's response is so damned negative.

Can I put on record my gratitude to the Craven Pothole Club for what they are doing this year, and for what they did last year?

Where has anyone written anything negative whatsoever? Scrolling back up I can't find anything. Please advise. Or is this just yet another ad hominen tilt at me? If it is, just say.
 
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