Pantin: Left or Right Foot

paull

paull

New member
[gmod]Topic split from http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=14676.msg190217#msg190217[/gmod]


if you use your right foot in your leg loop dont get one , i tried a right foot pantin and loved it  :kiss2: but when i bought my own i got a left foot because i use my right foot in the leg loop  . the first time i used it i knew i had made a big mistake and should have bought a right foot one instead,

my advice try one before you buy  :) unless you already have then just ignore me  :LOL:

anyone else had problems ?
 
skippy

skippy

Active member
I use a 'black' left foot pantin and must admit unless I'm about 8 inches away from the wall I end up just doing a kinda  'Frog' type ascent....Maybe I need to try a right footed one.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
I'm 'right-legged' and always use that in my footloop as it's stronger, so it seemed logical to get a left-foot Pantin to keep the two systems well apart. Never had any problems, and personally I can't see how a right one is an improvement for a right-handed, right-footed climber. Read all kinds of confusing stuff on how rebelays can be a problem - confusing as I never have a problem! I guess it's just what you're comfortable with, but it seems to me there's less likelihood of angling the rope wrongly in the Croll with a left Pantin too, as the opening slot on the Croll is on the right.
 
skippy

skippy

Active member
I tend to remove my pantin well before rebelays and Dev's...unless I forget of coures..thats happened several times :-[
 
MarkS

MarkS

Moderator
Sorry for heading slightly off topic, but I believe the reasoning for a right footed pantin is that most people have their safety link (or whatever attaches them to their hand jammer) attached to their central maillon on the left side of their croll.

A left footed pantin therefore means a complete loop is essentially created around the rope (maillon - safety link - hand jammer - footloop - right foot) which must be broken to pass a rebelay. With a right footed pantin, everything attached to the hand jammer is to the left of the rope so there's no need to take your foot in and out of the footloop at each rebelay.

At least that appears to be Petzl's reason for not recommending the left footed one for SRT (although they do suggest attatching the footloop to your leg).

I'm predominantly right-footed and use a right-footed Pantin. I suspect their effectiveness is dependent more on technique & practice than which foot it's on, though.
 
paull

paull

New member
:-\ been having a think about this one  :-\ im left handed and use a left handed hand jammer with my right foot in the foot loop, this maybe what is cocking the system up, next time ill use the wife's basic hand jammer and see if that helps  :confused: 
 
MarkS

MarkS

Moderator
It strikes me that, making the assumption that the safety link is attached to the left of the croll, the "best" setup should theoretically be a be right-footed pantin and left-handed hand jammer. Obviously reversed if the safety link it attached to the right. Although I think the advantages in most situations would be minimal.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
Well I have my safety link attached to the central maillon on the right of the Croll, so I guess that's why I don't have any problems. But you have to take your Pantin off at some point to pass a rebelay whatever foot it's on, so I would have thought it's just whichever feels best for you, rather than one being 'worse' than the other. I do often wonder why Petzl don't do left-handed Crolls, if the hand-jammer is deemed important enough to do both. Won't left-handed cavers struggle to open a normal Croll?
 
N

NOZ

New member
The reason Petzl do right and left handled ascenders.
Some rope climbing techniques demand one ascender for each hand.
 
Alkapton

Alkapton

Member
Alpine Caving Tecniques (the bible afaic) say if you have long and short cowstails as one piece of rope use right pantin - if cowstails seperate then use left pantin - it is not handedness but how you hang on rope - long cowtail must be on right short on left - get it wrong and bad things can happen.  My tails are seperate I use left pantin - rebelays no problem at all - in fact much easier than no pantin.
 
paull

paull

New member
pwhole said:
Won't left-handed cavers struggle to open a normal Croll?
Click to expand...

i dont struggle ( being ambidextrous ) but my wife is a propper lefty and struggles all the time with the croll 
 
Alkapton

Alkapton

Member
Use a pantin... The extra step it gives lets you release the croll easy... Without pantin I struggle an me right handed, with pantin -no problem.  At rebelay pantin is last thing to be releast, and for me last to be attached again.
 
P

potholer

New member
I'd echo what MarkS said - with a left-side attachment for a safety cord, a right foot Pantin allows the hand-jammer's footloop to be attached to the foot with a chicken loop without needing to have it removed from the foot when getting on/off sections of rope.

A chicken loop can be a real advantage if ropewalking (avoids losing the footloop if hands and footloop leg get out of sync), and can also be convenient for vertical trips with limited inter-pitch travel, as long as the hand jammer isn't needed for pitchhead manoeuvres, since it means you're instantly ready to climb when you arrive at a pitch, and only the jammer needs clipping to you between pitches.
 
S

seddon

New member
Just to muddy the waters...

If you have a left handled jammer, that goes to a left footed legloop, to balance a right footed foot jammer, THEN when you try and rope walk, you'll be forced to move left hand and left foot up the rope simultaneously. Then your right hand (gripping the rope) will move up the rope at the same time as your right foot slides the foot jammer up it.

Quite a picture when you visualise it, eh? Full left-body shimmy, then full right-body shimmy, repeat... Looks a bit like a salmon swimming up a waterfall.

Just an observation  8)
 
Mike Hopley

Mike Hopley

New member
seddon said:
Quite a picture when you visualise it, eh? Full left-body shimmy, then full right-body shimmy, repeat... Looks a bit like a salmon swimming up a waterfall.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, I think this is what I naturally do when ropewalking (although I don't hold an ascender). Not sure though; I'll have to check.

Digging out my copy of Alpine Caving Techniques, they also show a salmon-shimmy in the diagrams for "stair climbing".
 
MarkS

MarkS

Moderator
I always walk with both hands on my hand jammer, so I guess it wouldn't make too many odds for that?
 
Mike Hopley

Mike Hopley

New member
seddon said:
But not at all like most people walk!
Click to expand...

Indeed. And now you've got me wondering what I actually do on rope... :blink:

I do remember that one way around felt very, very wrong. And I'm starting to suspect it was the salmon shimmy.
 
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