syphons

SamT

SamT

Moderator
so - looking at setting up a syphon.

What type of pipe have people seen used in their travels.

Thoughts so far.

Garden hose - small internal diameter therefore low flow rates but cheap and readily available - easy to carry in.

Blue poly pipe - better internal diameter, tough readily available. Nasty colour, not easy to get into the cave

Fire hose - (like on those big reels you get in offices) flexible, tough, good internal diameter but where do I get it from. (cheap).

Any other ideas.
 
M

mudmonkey

New member
Down Swildon's they use a sort of intermediate diameter tube (1-2"-ish) which isn't too intrusive (it's dark red and (now....) muddy) to drain the first Trouble. That's pretty good, gives you plenty of airspace in the time taken to do a Blue Pencil detour.

I suspect garden hose is too narrow - without a good head of water you may well end up with it blocking with grit. :cry:

Fire hose won't work. At the apex of a syphon you have reduced (less than atmospheric) pressure, so the pipe will collapse at that point. :oops:

Where are you syphoning? How long does the tube need to be?? Obviously a shorter tube has less resistance to flow - or is flow rate not so important for you?

Try your local plumbing shop?
 
T

twllddu

Guest
critical question is the required flow rate. does the sump you're looking at have any water flow ? poly pipe is fine but a pain to carry, usually best as a long snake with people to guide it. attaching a sling or length of rope with a prussik works well. you may find it easier to use multiple pipes rather than one large one as they are more flexible and hence easier to carry. do you know if the sump goes - if it does it may be easier to syphon from the other side, divers can usually be persuaded using standard beer tokens if they think the project is worth while.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
the sump is static and perched. it dries up in summer so we know what lies beyond. It would just be nice to know we can get there in winter too.

We got a syphon working last night with garden hose - going back tonight to see if its made an impact and extend it a bit.

I dont mean the roll flat fire hose alla on fire engines but the stuff you find in your office on a big reel. Dark red so probably the same stuff thats in swildons.

had a look round the net and its available for about £60 per 30 meters as are various other 25mm hose's.

part of the reason for draining it in winter is to learn about how it fills and from where since its always been a bit of an enigma.
 
D

diggerdog adam

Guest
Use baked bean cans taped with gaffer tape good diameter and cheap

Surprisingly fexi !
 
ian mckenzie

ian mckenzie

New member
My favorite story of siphoning static sumps comes from Vancouver Island. A couple of cavers set up a siphon hose, left their tackle bags there and let it run overnight. When they returned the next morning, they discovered that they had merely moved the sump closer to the entrance, and now their kit was on the far side of it...
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Hmmm - not so sure about the baked beam tins - thats gonna cause some gas.

definately no worries about blocking ones self in - downhill all the way for the water.
 
Duncan Price

Duncan Price

Active member
SamT said:
Garden hose - small internal diameter therefore low flow rates but cheap and readily available - easy to carry in.
Click to expand...

Garden hose is OK. If you want a higher flow rate then set up two or more syphons in parallel.
 
caverholic

caverholic

New member
Type of hose depends on situation really.

In swildons the hose ends about 5m below the sump so syphoning with any diameter pipe would be easy as you have gravity on your side to get it going and keep it going.

If there is little height distance small diameter hose is probably best otherwise you might have difficulty starting the syphon off.

in bagshawe which i presume your talking about its probably best to use several small diameter hoses rather than 1 big one.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Got ourselves some nice 1" internal diameter fire hose which should do the job nicely.
equivalent to 3.5 garden hoses (in cross section). I think the drop is over 2 meters so shouldnt be a problem and we have a good bilge pump for setting the syphon going.
Going to leave it for a while till things dry up a bit.
Praying for a dry one this summer. As are several of the hope valley digging teams.
 
Mrs Trellis

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
Just to add something which may be of interest. I spotted a power drill operated pump in a "pound" shop. It was designed to operate with garden hose as the intended use was the emptying of ponds and water features. Might not be robust enough for underground; but for a quid it might be worth a look.
 
hrock

hrock

New member
i use vacume tubing (disined for the inlet to pumps) comes in loads of sizes and will not cruch flat if there is a lot of suction or someone on it. it is the best stuf for the job but it is not so cheap £1.70 a meter for the 30 mm dia stuf
 
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