Have there any updates since the bad air reports in 2008


T pot

It's not Long Rake Spar Mine.

pm sent t pot 2

Why the PM? I'm sure plenty of Derbyshire cavers would be interested in any status update on Long Rake (I'm assuming Founder Shaft?)

I spoke to the farmer recently - he doesn't want to change the status (no access).  I'm worried about jeopardising access to other nearby sites on his land (which isn't access land under CROW) if there's too much debate about it.

Perhaps it's time to discuss the situation again at a DCA meeting or down the pub if anyone has ideas. I'm not optimistic about the likelihood of changing anything though...

The subject of regaining access to the mine has been on the DCA radar ever since its closure. The landowner has stipulated no access and that is his right. We probably need to accept that that is the situation now with this site and look to the future for access once the quarry operations in the area are ceased.
Please feel free to attend a DCA meeting and discuss the matter. The next DCA meeting is the AGM on the 27th Feb where we intend to appoint a new Access Officer to the currently vacant post.

Pete Knight - DCA Projects.

Fair point! I would have been surprised if much had changed...but ever hopeful!

Am I correct in assuming that the situation is still the same?

Madness said:

Am I correct in assuming that the situation is still the same?

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So, by the lack of responses I can assume one of the following:-

1) Nobody knows if the situation has changed
2) People are secretly accessing the place, but keeping schtum about it.
3) Nobody gives a monkeys about it
4) Somebody knows that the situation is the same, but their keyboard has stopped working.

https://thedca.org.uk/dca-cr/registry/sitedetails.php?id=226

Current situation according to the DCA is no access at the request of the landowner.

Cavermark is probably the most able to comment on this.

D.

A few of us walked by the shaft top last year, and the lid was buried under a lot of mud and sheep-shit, and didn't look like it had been accessed for a long time. The landowner up there has pretty much said no access to everything. However, one other nearby entrance is (almost) next to a public footpath, and as far as I know was repaired and grilled by a PDMHS team, so it's an awkward discussion to get into with them, especially in public.

Moss Rake East quarry currently has a bunch of Peak Park stop notices across the entrance, as 'someone' has been dumping toxic and prohibited waste in the quarry, and they are threatening all sorts, as they must. There are a lot more signs, but I put up the two most useful. All the quarrying and spar-extraction has stopped, so sooner or later the Peak Park are going to start insisting on clean-up and restoration, which I believe will be the landowner's responsibility. I have no idea of the volume of those quarries, and whether backfilling is even feasible (and with what?) but the amount of work required to stabilise them and make them safe (or make them totally inaccessible to the public) is going to be immense and probably financially crippling. The land is effectively now wasteland, with little hope of 'improvement' or further business prospects possible.

Turning the whole of Moss Rake, from Outlands Head westwards to Cop Rake into a mining heritage site, with underground access to all the mines (and caves therein) granted, rigged safely and competently, (and access supervised by a responsible body) would be by far the best solution for everyone's 'problem'. A lot of work no doubt, but a far, far better use of the land than the current Wild West comedy situation that remains in place. And it would probably keep the place in better condition too, once people who knew what they were doing were allowed to get stuck in.

pwhole said:

Turning the whole of Moss Rake, from Outlands Head westwards to Cop Rake into a mining heritage site, with underground access to all the mines (and caves therein) granted, rigged safely and competently, (and access supervised by a responsible body) would be by far the best solution for everyone's 'problem'. A lot of work no doubt, but a far, far better use of the land than the current Wild West comedy situation that remains in place. And it would probably keep the place in better condition too, once people who knew what they were doing were allowed to get stuck in.

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That sounds ambitious, but would be fantastic if it was possible to do.

If quarrying has stopped then perhaps the caving community should be working to allay the landowners concerns and re-establish access.

Has there been any monitoring of gas levels within the mine since the incident all those years ago?

There was supposed to be monitoring, but I don't think there has been much since the initial incident. If there has, we haven't heard about it. I do believe there have been some discussions between the caving bodies and the landowner - indeed I had one interesting conversation with the landowner myself last year, near the other entrance mentioned above, which clarified one or two points, but opened up a whole lot of others. It's an awkward situation, but one which I hope can be resolved, as I feel the landowner would actually benefit from us being around regularly, rather than suffer trouble from it.

We can help!  :halo:

Just bear in mind that a few years ago (but also a few years after the Long Rake incident) we (myself and Rob Eavis) spoke to and wrote to Mr Hadfield (also Long Rake land owner) regarding access to Moss Rake Head Shaft. We were declined access after he had taken advice from his lawyers. If it had been that the decision to decline access was his own then perhaps this is something that given time and some persuasive powers could have been reversed. Persuading him to go against the advice of his lawyers though is a different matter altogether I feel..... 

Is it possible for the title of this thread to be changed since it's obviously about Long Rake Mine? Long Rake Spar Mine is near Youlgreave.

Big Jim said:

Just bear in mind that a few years ago (but also a few years after the Long Rake incident) we (myself and Rob Eavis) spoke to and wrote to Mr Hadfield (also Long Rake land owner) regarding access to Moss Rake Head Shaft. We were declined access after he had taken advice from his lawyers. If it had been that the decision to decline access was his own then perhaps this is something that given time and some persuasive powers could have been reversed. Persuading him to go against the advice of his lawyers though is a different matter altogether I feel..... 

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Yeah, I was bearing that in mind, but didn't want to bring it up unless/until you did! I got the impression that he had now been further appraised of the liability/insurance situation, but as yet hadn't changed his mind. His lawyers clearly have a different idea of the situation. Most of the discussion has been (necessarily) private though, and it does get awkward if gets too public. Our earlier confusion had arisen from someone else giving us permission to do the other one, which we believed was legit, but then Hadfield clarified that little issue in no uncertain terms when we had our chat, and that our previous permission was from effectively a tenant. The chat was very civil, I should point out.

I'm pretty sure I did mention the possibility of BCA Insurance cover for himself (Mr H) in a letter to him at the time. I can imagine he was civil with you though as he was with us and others have said the same. Such a shame..... maybe one day.........
Now go and find Hurdlow Stile Pipe Phil .......

mch said:

Is it possible for the title of this thread to be changed since it's obviously about Long Rake Mine? Long Rake Spar Mine is near Youlgreave.

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[gmod]Yes, I have done that now. Thread title changed from "Long Rake Spar Mine" to "Long Rake Mine".[/gmod]

Thanks for clarifying the situation fellas. Mr Hadfield sounds like a decent sort of chap who has acted on legal advice. No one can blame him for that. It's a positive point that he doesn't appear to be aggressive towards cavers. Perhaps one day, he'll change his mind and allow access.