CO2 Crisis
- Thread starter Greybeard
- Start date
Paul Marvin
Member
Greybeard said:Maybe I'm old & don't understand these things but I thought we (the world) were trying to cut down on CO2 production.
Love it
AlexR
Active member
In case it was a genuine question by Greybeard, although there is plenty of anthropogenic CO2 being churned out, this isn't necessarily useful or recoverable to us.
For example, although combustion processes generate CO2 this is accompanied by a multitude of side products, some quite harmful. So no good for food grade use (and purification is uneconomical).
I understand the current shortage is due to the fact that we obtain "clean" CO2 as a byproduct of steam reforming, part of a process generating ammonia for fertilisers (cf. Haber Bosch process). This process requires methane (natural gas), which is currently very expensive so plants have stopped operating --> no more CO2 byproduct.
For example, although combustion processes generate CO2 this is accompanied by a multitude of side products, some quite harmful. So no good for food grade use (and purification is uneconomical).
I understand the current shortage is due to the fact that we obtain "clean" CO2 as a byproduct of steam reforming, part of a process generating ammonia for fertilisers (cf. Haber Bosch process). This process requires methane (natural gas), which is currently very expensive so plants have stopped operating --> no more CO2 byproduct.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
The question here is why we've had to give an American company a bung to secure CO2 to secure the food supply. And of course, similarily, our energy companies are mainly American, German and French owned. Surely all this should be state owned.
cap n chris
Well-known member
If it was state owned it would have long since ceased to function.
JoshW
Well-known member
braveduck said:The volcano in Iceland is turning out 10,0000 tons of CO2 a day .and now we have another one In La Palma probably
putting out the same amount . So why should we all buy electric cars ,another con trick ?
In case this isn?t sarcasm - the point is we can control the burning of fossil fuels for things like cars, but obviously not for volcanoes and we should be cutting down any contributions we make to greenhouse gasses.
And before anyone says it I know electric vehicles aren?t perfect (for various reasons) but little bits will add up.
It?s a question of scale, though 10,000 tonnes a day might sound like a lot, relatively it isn?t . Vehicles in the UK produce an average of 334,000 tonnes of CO2 a day, with total human generated CO2 globally at an average of around 98,000,000 tonnes per day.JoshW said:braveduck said:The volcano in Iceland is turning out 10,0000 tons of CO2 a day .and now we have another one In La Palma probably
putting out the same amount . So why should we all buy electric cars ,another con trick ?
In case this isn?t sarcasm - the point is we can control the burning of fossil fuels for things like cars, but obviously not for volcanoes and we should be cutting down any contributions we make to greenhouse gasses.
And before anyone says it I know electric vehicles aren?t perfect (for various reasons) but little bits will add up.
SamT
Moderator
And the volcano is a one off act of nature that we cannot do anything about. The man made CO2 caused by travel etc is something that's perfectly in our control that we can consciously elect to do something about, (or not, as the case may be).
But yeah, there is an irony about our beef stocks being reduced on the shelf due to a lack of CO2.
But yeah, there is an irony about our beef stocks being reduced on the shelf due to a lack of CO2.
ttxela2
Active member
There was a similar CO2 shortage a few years ago when all the processing plants decided to shut down at the same time for maintenance due to high gas prices. We use CO2 gas for incubating cells and dry ice for shipping various products.
Funnily enough we really struggled in the last shortage but have had no problems getting hold of either this time.
Funnily enough we really struggled in the last shortage but have had no problems getting hold of either this time.
Stuart France
Active member
What would be wrong with using nitrogen instead to displace the oxygen for food packaging purposes? Presumably nitrogen is the main by-product from oxygen refinement in the gas supply industry? I guess it is just released back into the atmosphere as it's not a particularly interesting gas other than to pressurize certain keg beers that respond badly to CO2.
If the need is just to remove oxygen from food packaging then surely it could be 'burned off' with a bit of methane added directly to the gas supply line feeding the packaging machine to leave mainly nitrogen, CO2 and H2O vapour to fill the packet. Maybe a catalytic converter somewhere?
If the need is just to remove oxygen from food packaging then surely it could be 'burned off' with a bit of methane added directly to the gas supply line feeding the packaging machine to leave mainly nitrogen, CO2 and H2O vapour to fill the packet. Maybe a catalytic converter somewhere?
ZombieCake
Well-known member
There's a fair bit in some caves. Maybe there's an opening for speciality artisan boutique CO2 products? E.g. Mendip foodstuffs could be squirted with 'Essence of Cuckoo Cleeves'. At a suitable mark up of course.
pwhole
Well-known member
A firm chat with the oh-so-conflicted leader of Russia is what's really needed here, as that's what's ultimately causing this 'crisis' - there is no gas shortage if he stops playing silly buggers trying to blackmail the world to turn his taps back on. What a twat he is. Of course, he may not survive another term in office the way things are going over there.
