Had a look in Birkwith this weekend, with the view of having a go at Coppy Gill passage. It said in NC that it came out at a manhole that is best dug from the surface, but there wasn't any obvious manhole about so we went into the other end from Birkwith and soon decided it was a bit too unpleasant for something that was going to end in a dead end. Has anybody managed to get through lately? And does it get any better after the bedding plane full of formations and sharp gravel?

On the same topic (I've got a theme going here of nice easy caves that have shitty bits in them that nobody ever does), has anyone had a go at November Hole? Incidentally, I 'found' a bit of crawly wet passage down long churn a bit ago that connects the top of plank pool with Diccan entrance. I can't believe I've been going past it for so long and never noticed it before.

has anyone had a go at November Hole?

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No but I want to.. Someone said many moons ago it was a bit miserable in one part and warranted a higher than grade3, but I still want to have a nosey!

Incidentally, I 'found' a bit of crawly wet passage down long churn a bit ago that connects the top of plank pool with Diccan entrance

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The one that bypasses the two pools or the one that emerges just 'upstream' of the pool and connects to the afformentioned passage? Which I've not done as its small and scrotty looking..

Had a look in Birkwith this weekend, with the view of having a go at Coppy Gill passage. It said in NC that it came out at a manhole that is best dug from the surface, but there wasn't any obvious manhole

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We tried looking last autumn and found what could have been it, though not really convinced! If so, it was a manhole in the sense of 'man sized drop into cave' as opposed to any sort of lid. Did you feel any sort of conviction over identification of Coppy Gill Cave, which is close?

has anyone had a go at November Hole

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Yep, again, last autumn. It's easy to find. Slide over high bedding plane bit following obvious slightly less flat bit of floor, and drop into very nice rift passage. That's the good bit. After a few yards there's a bit which is too tight (for me, anyway) without grovelling full length in the water. I'm going to go back later this year when the weather, and hopefully the water, is a bit warmer. It looks well worth doing.

I 'found' a bit of crawly wet passage down long churn a bit ago that connects the top of plank pool with Diccan entrance

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I looked on the ULSA survey, and it's shown as a sort of very tenuous dotted line, in which case I'm not surprised you've never noticed it. I never have, but then I haven't been in that bit of Long Churn that often,

We tried looking last autumn and found what could have been it, though not really convinced! If so, it was a manhole in the sense of 'man sized drop into cave' as opposed to any sort of lid

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To be honest I only did a quick scan from the field opposite, but I was looking for some sort of lid. I'm going to have to go back now and have a go from the other end!

The one that bypasses the two pools or the one that emerges just 'upstream' of the pool and connects to the afformentioned passage? Which I've not done as its small and scrotty looking..

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The one on the right at the top of the pool. It's quite roomy when you get in, but has lots of water filled hollows on the floor so that that you can't help ending up wet up to the armpits even if you keep your body dry.

So who's going to join me in November hole then?

So who's going to join me in November hole then?

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Not till the weather gets warmer!
It's only about 200m long! What are you going to do for the rest of the afternoon? Gillgarth is nearby, and Upper Borrins Moor

Have you been to the end of Milner's Inlet?

Rachel said:

So who's going to join me in November hole then?

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Go on then, I'm mad enough to give it a go!

kay said:

Gillgarth is nearby, and Upper Borrins Moor... Have you been to the end of Milner's Inlet

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Are they all worthy of a visit then? The NC2 Gillgarth description sounds most interesting: "an invigorating through trip, plenty of action in a short space"

I have done a small passage just inside Diccan on the right (halfway between entrance and Long Churn connection) - thats a real gem that goes nowhere and has no commendable features - apart from the fact theres room to turn round at the end

I spent most of the day, when I was much younger, slimmer, and madder(!) exploring all the smaller caves in the area.
Luckily it was Summer, and I really enjoyed it. But I did buy a wetsuit soon after that!

Gillgarth etc- whether they're worthy of a visit depends on how much enjoyment you get poking around small holes just to see where they go, as opposed to seeking a 'good sporting trip' or lots of pretties.

Gillgarth: entered top entrance after removing the sheep (twice - stupid anuimal!). Bedding plane which on the day had about 3 inches of air space and no obvious way on, so we backed out and went in bottom entrance as far as the waterfall. I think I was recovering from an op at the time, so we decided to not to climb it but to come back another day. So, yes, we thought it was good enough to come back for the through trip.

Upper Borrins Moor we had a very quick look in on our way home one day - fun little cave, lots of white water rushing in from inlets in the side of the passage. Something to look at if you're up there anyway - rather as you would Wilson's. there's Birthday cave too - a through trip for the thinner members of the party, in and back out again for the rest.

Borrins Moor itself is interesting - go in the 'top' entrance, wander along the easy side passage and back again, then down the main passage till where the roof drops and you're floundering along on hands and knees in water, then, instead of making the quick and obvious trek to daylight ahead, turn right and explore all the side passages and the four other entrances.

Does anyone remember the episode of Hollyoaks where they all got lost (!) in Long Churn, ducked under the water in Dr Bannister and emerged from the low entrance of Borrin's Moor?

depends on how much enjoyment you get poking around small holes just to see where they go,

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I find some of the small holes quite interesting - usually aim to do quite a few in one go to make it a worthwhile day.

I will have to have a wander over in the direction of Upper Borrins and Gillgarth one day then!

Does anyone remember the episode of Hollyoaks where they all got lost (!) in Long Churn, ducked under the water in Dr Bannister and emerged from the low entrance of Borrin's Moor?

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unfortunately yes!

I find some of the small holes quite interesting - usually aim to do quite a few in one go to make it a worthwhile day.

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What do you reckon the worthwhile small holes in the Dales are? I don't do SRT, so I'm always on the lookout for interesting holes, sometimes as a 'caving' trip fully kitted out, sometimes as walk with helmet and light in the rucksack, ducking into whatever appears on the way. Greensett was one of those - not big enough to be worth the climb in full caving gear, but easy and interesting, and a lovely location.

Never done Gillgarth, but I quite enjoy having a peek at things that seem uninspiring at first glance. I also enjoy doing standard trips but poking in every little inlet along the way and spending all day over it instead of rushing past as most of us often do.

What do you reckon the worthwhile small holes in the Dales are?

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Roger Kirk is good, with a horrible squeezy duck halfway (but it does have a peculiar bypass).
Valley entrance is great for sheer variety.

What do you reckon the worthwhile small holes in the Dales are?

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The place my caving started off at is an interesting area - along the scar with Jubilee, Victoria and Attermire Cave(this one being the best of the bunch).

Gatekirk - short and sweet! (not really done anything else in the area yet like Bruntscar etc)

Angels Drainpipe, Devils Grinding Mill and maybe other odd bits in Stenkrith Park - these are short wet trips but good fun!

Gaze Gill Cave - quite pleasant really!

If you don't mind a short ladder (8m) then Nettle Pot in Dentdale is a little gem of a through trip.

I also enjoy doing standard trips but poking in every little inlet along the way and spending all day over it

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Yes, agreed - I like working out where everything goes to and how it all fits together. But I guess that's obvious - else neither of us would be anywhere near November hole

Roger Kirk is good, with a horrible squeezy duck halfway (but it does have a peculiar bypass)

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What's the peculiar bypass, then? I've done the through trip from W Sink, which joins RK just past the Tube, but do you know a bit I don't know?

Angels Drainpipe, Devils Grinding Mill and maybe other odd bits in Stenkrith Park - these are short wet trips but good fun!

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Yes, we looked at the entrances during a reconnaissance trip - we're going with Morley PC later in the year. The Moldewarps account is excellent - see Chapter 12 in:

http://www.broomlee.demon.co.uk/memoirsall.html

Bizarre place! Well populated 'country park' adjacent to housing estate, full of families and kids playing, and all these cave entrances. What do you do about changing? Just hide behind a bush?

Nettle Pot is on my 'to do' list. I don't have a short ladder so was intending to enter through the culvert and go as far as the pitch and back. I notice the passage sumps in wet weather - how dry does it need to be to be able to get through? Thanks for Gaze Gill - I'll add that to the list. Do you need permission ?

Bizarre place! Well populated 'country park' adjacent to housing estate, full of families and kids playing, and all these cave entrances. What do you do about changing? Just hide behind a bush?

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We parked on the road that runs past it- near the junction - I recall a high wall so couldn't be seen from houses and there wasn't really anyone around to offend, which was suprising for a Saturday in May.

Nettle Pot is on my 'to do' list. I don't have a short ladder so was intending to enter through the culvert and go as far as the pitch and back. I notice the passage sumps in wet weather - how dry does it need to be to be able to get through?

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Not sure to be honest - we did it in dry weather - which would be preferable to damp conditions owing to the low wet nature of the end bit.

Thanks for Gaze Gill - I'll add that to the list. Do you need permission ?

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Don't know - I didn't when I went, its the same 'field' as Herons Lower exit but going on NC3 permission is from Kingsdale Head Farm...?

What's the peculiar bypass, then? I've done the through trip from W Sink, which joins RK just past the Tube, but do you know a bit I don't know?

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We went into RK from the end furthest away from the road and about halfway through, you get to a horizontal squeeze, about 14-18 inches high, more than half full of water. Just before it there's a tight passage on the right. You have to go into it lying on your right side, as there's a 180 degree bend to the left after about 3 feet. That brings you round to the duck again, but the other side of the rock over it. The way on is a hidden tight passage on the right that doubles back parallel to the first tight passage. Sounds more complicated than it is - but then so does NC sometimes!

We went into RK from the end furthest away from the road and about halfway through, you get to a horizontal squeeze, about 14-18 inches high, more than half full of water. Just before it there's a tight passage on the right. You have to go into it lying on your right side, as there's a 180 degree bend to the left after about 3 feet. That brings you round to the duck again, but the other side of the rock over it. The way on is a hidden tight passage on the right that doubles back parallel to the first tight passage. Sounds more complicated than it is - but then so does NC sometimes!

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Now I'm lost!! This is my memory of RK - go in farthest from road, the entrance behind the top of the little scar, at the right hand end. A short way in there's one tightish bit just before a LH bend, and then you're soon into a crawly wet passage. You get to where straight ahead is, if I recall correctly, under a big boulder and fizzles out, there's an ascending 'passage' to the right, and the way on is a low hole on the left, the 'Tube', about 18 inches high, less wide, and full of water, which you have to tackle on your side or back. This is less than body length and brings you out into a standing height passage and you go cantering off leftwards to 'white corner', the waterfall, the traverse and all the other delights. To the right the passage gets lower and lower till the west Sink entrance.

Is your 'tight passage' the same as my 'ascending passage', and are you saying that it brings you out the other side of the boulder over the 'main passage' by the Tube, and that there's a second 'Tube' parallel to the first? (Which is now to the right, because having bypassed the boulder you are now facing back the way you originally were coming) How far away? If it's further into RK than the Tube, then it would come out into the bit of passage which is the continuation of RK West Sink in Northern Caves terminology.

Or are you saying that the tight passage brings you out at the far end of the Tube? - in other words, already into the continuation/West Sink passage?

I'm going to go and have a look, aren't I? How am I ever going to get through my list of caves to visit if I keep having to go back and re-explore previous ones? :wink:

How am I ever going to get through my list of caves to visit if I keep having to go back and re-explore previous ones?

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I cave with someone who marks in his guidebooks everytime he does a trip.
What is the atraction in doing every single cave in the guidebook?
When I go of caving I decide which cave I want to do, not what will complete my list. It rather reminds me of train-spotting! :wink: :roll:

What is the atraction in doing every single cave in the guidebook?
When I go of caving I decide which cave I want to do, not what will complete my list. It rather reminds me of train-spotting!

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There is an attraction in doing every cave in the list for people who are that way inclined. I'm not. That is why I have a list of caves which I want to do because they look interesting, or because someone has recommended them. I'm sure you have a list - even if it's just in your head. When you no longer have a list of caves that you want to do, you have finally lost your interest in caving.

So go and roll your eyes at someone else, please! :wink:

Sorry Kay oke: