Just curious. As a relatively new caver and browsing through the cave maps on the excellent ogof.org.uk website, it got me wondering how much digging and fresh exploration is going on these days, particularly in the South Wales area? I know the ?glory days? of caving seem to have passed but is anyone still out there actively seeking new caves, such as the rumoured major system beneath the Black Mountain? Hopefully the recent earthquake has loosened things up.
How much active digging?
- Thread starter ryanctj
- Start date
PeteHall
Moderator
The glory days of easy-to-find new cave have certainly passed (in the UK at least), but there is still plenty of digging going on out there.
Digs are either long term projects that may continue for years and never break through or they are a long way from the surface!
The best way to find out how many active digs there are in your area, would be to look a little bit keen in the local caving hut/pub and see how many people try to press-gang you onto their project after you've had too many beers to turn them down
Digs are either long term projects that may continue for years and never break through or they are a long way from the surface!
The best way to find out how many active digs there are in your area, would be to look a little bit keen in the local caving hut/pub and see how many people try to press-gang you onto their project after you've had too many beers to turn them down
Definitely still a lot of digging going on. My club has several on the go.
However, I think South Wales digging has been driven underground (pun intended) as a lot of people are worried about being hauled in front of the local judiciary if they accidentally step on a rare lichen. How likely this is is debatable but it is definitely a factor in the increased secrecy that you'll find,especially in the Llangattock and Clydach Gorge areas.
However, I think South Wales digging has been driven underground (pun intended) as a lot of people are worried about being hauled in front of the local judiciary if they accidentally step on a rare lichen. How likely this is is debatable but it is definitely a factor in the increased secrecy that you'll find,especially in the Llangattock and Clydach Gorge areas.
alastairgott
Well-known member
PeteHall said:
Some interesting conceptions, but I'm sure there are things that can be found as surface digs or easy digs quite close to the surface. The challenge is finding them and 'realising' their potential.
If you were a mining company, employing someone for half a year to find something, would back in the day, be quite easy and would only amount to 180 days worth of digging.
3 years of digging once every fortnight is 72 sessions. It really depends on your perceptions of long term digging.
Finding cave in 3 or 4 sessions is rare, but it definitely DOES happen!
Pitlamp
Well-known member
There's so much new stuff left to find. There's many large areas of limestone still virtually untouched, which have all the signs of being cave country. This is where a good caving library really shows its value; do your research properly and you'll have a much better success rate.
One top tip is look at areas or systems about which very little has been written. They'll probably have had fewer of your predecessors rooting around and picking off the cherries.
Another useful source of information is to read material written by cavers who are known to have been consistently successful. As an example, in the post war period up to the 1960s there was a bloke called Les Salmon, who was very active in the Peak District. He was also a very good recorder of exploratory work (mainly in BSA publications but also elsewhere). More recent generations have focussed on outstanding work and promising leads flagged up by Salmon's writings, with many interesting finds resulting.
It all starts in the caving library
One top tip is look at areas or systems about which very little has been written. They'll probably have had fewer of your predecessors rooting around and picking off the cherries.
Another useful source of information is to read material written by cavers who are known to have been consistently successful. As an example, in the post war period up to the 1960s there was a bloke called Les Salmon, who was very active in the Peak District. He was also a very good recorder of exploratory work (mainly in BSA publications but also elsewhere). More recent generations have focussed on outstanding work and promising leads flagged up by Salmon's writings, with many interesting finds resulting.
It all starts in the caving library
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
Folk are still burrowing away under Mendip . We still have not found the mythical Cheddar Master Cave. I think the Cheddar area is one of the largest catchments and risings in the UK. Sadly some Mendip digging groups tend to be a bit shy so we don't hear all that goes on. We took a chance on a surface dig three years ago and are approaching 70m depth. In Mendip terms that's pretty good going.
Disgusted from Cornwall.
New member
We're doing lots of mine related stuff down in cornwall. lots of "old ground" being pushed by the first set of wellies.
pwhole
Well-known member
Pitlamp said:Another useful source of information is to read material written by cavers who are known to have been consistently successful. As an example, in the post war period up to the 1960s there was a bloke called Les Salmon, who was very active in the Peak District. He was also a very good recorder of exploratory work (mainly in BSA publications but also elsewhere). More recent generations have focussed on outstanding work and promising leads flagged up by Salmon's writings, with many interesting finds resulting.
It all starts in the caving library
Funnily enough, I found a hilarious letter in the TSG library ages ago, between Trevor Ford and (I think) Les Salmon. They'd been sneakily digging at night in the Lower Bung Stopes in Speedwell, trying to get into what would now be the bottom of the Nameless Series, without success. They'd even more sneakily taken in some bang to help their efforts, and set off a charge at midnight or something. I think Trevor was still working at the Cavern at the time and the next morning he got a proper bollocking, as the fumes hadn't cleared in the streamway, but had blown back into the canal instead.
But agreed, there is still loads to find, even in areas considered 'played out', and digging is definitely worth it, if permission and logistics make it possible. That's the best part, finding something new. Pitlamp, your article in the 1991 Peak-Speedwell Cave Science mentioning the 'rule of thumb' about passage density/length between known entrances on a cave system (I don't have it in front of me) - the 10km of cave for every 1km separation - was that developed any further? It's certainly been useful to me, especially when looking at suspiciously 'empty' areas on the surveys of large cave systems
Mark Wright
Active member
pwhole said:Pitlamp said:Another useful source of information is to read material written by cavers who are known to have been consistently successful. As an example, in the post war period up to the 1960s there was a bloke called Les Salmon, who was very active in the Peak District. He was also a very good recorder of exploratory work (mainly in BSA publications but also elsewhere). More recent generations have focussed on outstanding work and promising leads flagged up by Salmon's writings, with many interesting finds resulting.
It all starts in the caving library
Funnily enough, I found a hilarious letter in the TSG library ages ago, between Trevor Ford and (I think) Les Salmon. They'd been sneakily digging at night in the Lower Bung Stopes in Speedwell, trying to get into what would now be the bottom of the Nameless Series, without success. They'd even more sneakily taken in some bang to help their efforts, and set off a charge at midnight or something. I think Trevor was still working at the Cavern at the time and the next morning he got a proper bollocking, as the fumes hadn't cleared in the streamway, but had blown back into the canal instead.
But agreed, there is still loads to find, even in areas considered 'played out', and digging is definitely worth it, if permission and logistics make it possible. That's the best part, finding something new. Pitlamp, your article in the 1991 Peak-Speedwell Cave Science mentioning the 'rule of thumb' about passage density/length between known entrances on a cave system (I don't have it in front of me) - the 10km of cave for every 1km separation - was that developed any further? It's certainly been useful to me, especially when looking at suspiciously 'empty' areas on the surveys of large cave systems
I've been reading the 1991 Cave Science only today, researching something in Peak Cavern that needs another look at.
Pitlamp mentioned the Les Salmon references. It is those exact references that led Pete O'Neil and the late Frank Brown to find a lot of new cave in the Peak/Speedwell catchment.
There was a list of potentially promising digs on the wall in the TSG hut in the 80's that maybe Pitlamp actually put together. It was that list that got me interested in digging out the Trenches and finally linking Peak & Speedwell in 1984.
Most of the digs on the list are still waiting to be dug.
Mark
ryanctj said:
Just to point out the amount of potential still out there ryanctj, you've missed an 's' off the end of 'system'. From the catchments that have been mapped out, there are at least four major systems under the Black Mountain and only the Dan Yr Ogof catchment has a large amount of passage so far explored!
Get digging!
Trig Gledhill
New member
There's plenty ongoing in the Llangattock/ Llangynidr to Clydach area and on the other side of the valley.
It's kept mostly secret but there is still loads more to be found.
I can't speak for the black mountain side but I've heard there's huge efforts to find the systems
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It's kept mostly secret but there is still loads more to be found.
I can't speak for the black mountain side but I've heard there's huge efforts to find the systems
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Huge said:ryanctj said:
Just to point out the amount of potential still out there ryanctj, you've missed an 's' off the end of 'system'. From the catchments that have been mapped out, there are at least four major systems under the Black Mountain and only the Dan Yr Ogof catchment has a large amount of passage so far explored!
Get digging!
That is exciting news indeed! I drive over the Black Mountain every day to work and often wonder if/when more caves will be discovered there. I?ve only been in Llygad Llwchwr over there so far, fantastic cave.
Thanks for all the great responses, it?s great to hear there is plenty of digging still going on everywhere, though I fully appreciate the need to remain discreet. It is something I would like to try in time.
Trig Gledhill
New member
Where are you currently living?
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Trig Gledhill
New member
He's dragging his heels for Pwll Dwfn! I'm good to go wheneverHuge said:
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