Marble Sink: perfectly spiced

MarkS

Moderator
https://yorkcavingclub.org.uk/reports/index.php

It had been a while since I'd felt anxious on a walk to a cave. A couple of years of largely dig-focussed trips and a more recent spate of returns to Yorkshire classics meant I was rather out of calibration with some of the more challenging trips to be had. However, Toby's enthusiasm for Marble Sink had changed that, and the anxiety was well and truly there. Recalibration was on the cards and I was anticipating maximum spice.

After reading a trip report over lunch the previous day that likened the trip to being pummeled gently whilst lifting a tackle sack at arms length I decided to end my research there, and to simply approach the trip with ignorance. This tactic failed as the description appeared after a couple of beers at the NPC the night before. "Tight", "sqeeze", "awkward", "narrow". I got the gist, but Toby's enthusiasm was still sky high. "It sounds like a great trip!" Easy to say when you're his dimensions.

Our arrival at the entrance heralded some unusual scenes as Adam cracked open his usual zesty beverage and instructed me to cut off various bits of his harness that he deemed would be detrimental to the trip. After a significant attack with my knife, his harness was looking much more streamlined, and we all opted to go for a descent sans cowstails or ascenders attached. Good choice.

Toby obviously had to go first, and totally ignored the advice to enter feet-first on the premise that he'd probably be able to turn around at the pitch head where most couldn't. He was right. Adam and I followed feet-first. Also a correct decision.

We arrived sooner than expected at the pitch where the rigging was...unorthodox. One spit and an old protruding bolt provided our only means of attachment, and Toby thankfully had a skinny sling that could be nicely(?) clove-hitched on to the bolt. The pitch head looked pretty remarkable, and not in a good way, but you've got to be in it to win it, and once in, it was easily won. A spacious descent led to the entertaining and distinctive flake climb, Bastard Hole, and further climb to meet the water. So far so good!

A couple of shocking spits didn't faze Toby on the next pitch, but the same couldn't be said for me and some rerigging preceded my descent. The subsequent enticing bedding lived up to its description, as did the less enticing crawl below, and a dampening was unavoidable as we set off into the next section of passage. At the sharp-ish corner before the next climb down I had a bit of a brain-failure, culminating in me stood in the rift unable to get back down to a level at which I could continue. After a partial reverse around the corner, the situation was rectified and I continued on to hear Toby telling us how easy Speakers' Corner was. Toby finding it straightforward was hardly surprising, but I was pleasantly surprised to agree with his assessment, and we were back in more spacious passage and soon down to David's Traverse. I following Toby and Adam along, amazed to almost immediately hear Toby announce that he'd reached the next pitch. Having taken only 5 minutes or so at this point, Adam and I scoffed slightly at the 15-20 minutes mentioned in the guidebook for the time taken for this section, before reaching the squeezy bits which took us an additional 10 minutes or so. Oh well. In-situ hangers provided a pleasing level of ignorance at this point, and an enjoyable couple of descents saw us down to the Devil's Kitchen.

We were well aware that Marble Sink is unlikely to rank amongst the most frequently visited potholes in the Dales, but we were very surprised to find the handline solidly calcited to the flowstone it was resting on! After forcefully detaching the rope, we traversed through to the pretty little grotto that was our final destination. A pleasing chamber to complete an enjoyable descent.

I volunteered to derig, and our ascent went reasonably smoothly. David's Traverse was certainly a little spicier on the return, as was Speakers' Corner. Particularly for Adam who tackled it facing the outside of the bend, although I have since read this as a recommended method! At around 6 ft tall, I had few problems tackling the bend facing the inside and would certainly not have liked to have been facing the other way! The following section of passage proved more of an obstacle, due to the enforced arms-ahead position, upward slope, and tackle sack making progress a little tricky.

The climbs between the top two pitches were easier than anticipated, aside from the Bastard Hole which well and truly lived up to its name. Some teamwork would perhaps have helped a little here; maybe next time. The final obstacle was provided by the sharp bend in the entrance crawl: Toby's bag got caught behind him and I was following with my bag ahead of me, making it impossible for me to help out. Probably. I left him to it and after what sounded like a bit of unpacking and repacking we were soon back outside after a thoroughly enjoyable 4.5 hours underground.

I think the cave exceeded my expectations in every way. It certainly provided challenges, but was also not lacking in pleasant passage, pitches, climbs and formations, and at no point was it really unpleasant. It pains me to say it, but Toby was absolutely right. It was indeed a great trip.

We rounded off a super day with a curry with the other Yorkies in Bentham that, much like the cave, was perfectly spiced. We then caught the end of the book launch at the Marton for a drink or two, before returning the the NPC for some more refreshments and copious amounts of food. Top cave. Top day.
 

nobrotson

Active member
sounds excellent. this one has been on my list for some time, hopefully will do it soon. When you say 'sans cowstails or ascenders attached', do you mean they were in a bag to be used on ascent?
 

MarkS

Moderator
nobrotson said:
When you say 'sans cowstails or ascenders attached', do you mean they were in a bag to be used on ascent?

Yes, although I don't think any of our cowstails left the bags at all... I think we all wore harnesses/descenders for the full descent (which I suspect saved a fair bit of time taking them on/off). For the way out I wore my harness all the way, but detached my hand jammer and footloop etc. between every pitch. I also took my croll off for David's Traverse and Speakers' Corner.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Thanks for the interesting trip report.

There are a few caves that are better done using ladders and Marble Sink must be top of that list. You only need six ladders, belays and a few slings. That is less tackle to carry than six ropes and three sets of SRT gear. The advantages are that you can abandon SRT gear altogether, progress unencumbered, save time and enjoy the cave more. In the lower half of the cave you would be carrying just one ladder each and if you were a larger party some would have nothing to carry. All of the larger clubs have stocks of ladders.

The list of caves that are in need of resin anchors is made up mainly of the harder caves; the caves where volunteers to do the installing are in the shortest supply and the caves where a rescue would be the most difficult or very close to impossible in the case of Marble Sink.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
There are a few caves that are better done using ladders and Marble Sink must be top of that list. You only need six ladders, belays and a few slings.

And lifelines, presumably - unless you meant to do it without them?
 

Simon Wilson

New member
andrewmc said:
Simon Wilson said:
There are a few caves that are better done using ladders and Marble Sink must be top of that list. You only need six ladders, belays and a few slings.

And lifelines, presumably - unless you meant to do it without them?
Lifelines would defeat the reason for using ladders.
 

Benfool

Member
I'm not sure if a member of the BCA equipment and techniques committee should be saying such a thing publicly!
 

Mike Hopley

New member
Simon Wilson said:
I'm an active caver who caves in the real world.

Plenty of other active cavers use lifelines with ladders. Especially -- thank god -- the younger ones, who have grown up in a culture where it's expected.

I wouldn't want to bash you for your personal preferences; it's your life, take whatever risks you feel like! But this is an issue that has plagued UK caving for decades. We've had far too many serious accidents on short ladder pitches with no lifeline.

As a community, this is an area where we need to grow up (and we have been). Good leadership would help, though. If only we had, say, an Equipment and Techniques committee who could demonstrate good practice! ::)
 

Simon Wilson

New member
This thread is about Marble Sink. Anybody who wants to discuss general ladder safety might want to start another thread.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
I think there's some confusion with terminology.

Most of the people on this thread seem to think about "Ladder and Lifeline" whereas Simon has used Terminology which I think I've seen in the new Northern Caves (and I think was used in the Original). "Ladder and Belay".
Effectively the two are one in the same, however most people seem to be thinking Lifeline means the rope attached to your harness, whereas Simon uses Lifeline in terms of Handline (or doesn't use the word "lifeline" at all due to its ambiguity).
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
alastairgott said:
(or doesn't use the word "lifeline" at all due to its ambiguity).

And I guess, due to the word Life in it. I mean they stopped people from Calling Buoyancy aids by their old name of Lifejackets, because someone had redefined the meaning of Lifejacket as something that keeps your head above even if unconscious.
I guess if you were to use "lifeline" then you would have to have some device on the top that automatically caught the person if they were falling "too fast". but I'm way off Marble sink now.
I'll have to talk to Onebar, Sims and Walmslers next time I see them!
 

Mike Hopley

New member
Regardless of the terminology, you're going to need a rope for every pitch if you want to lifeline / belay / top-rope everyone down and back up.

That is, unless you're doing something particularly fancy (error-prone?) like leaving cord in place and using a travelling rope. Or if you have a willing lemming like Simon who will go down last and up first, without being attached. :LOL: Or if you have an incredible talent for lassoing carabiners.

As for a handline, where the caver is not attached to the rope -- how is this useful with ladders? You already have a means of progression (the ladder). Perhaps I'm missing something?
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
I think you are, this is the statement which Simon made, which caused the "debate", largely amusing that you should state the same thing later on Mike.
"how is that useful with Ladders"

Simon Wilson said:
Lifelines would defeat the reason for using ladders.
 

cooleycr

Active member
Well you certainly have me confused Al!

Ladder and Lifeline = Ladder and rope attached to harness, I imagine top-belayed if descending...
Ladder and Handline = Ladder and....if I am climbing a ladder, I would use both hands on the ladder, why would I want to hold onto a separate rope, would rend me unstable?!?!?!!?

Anyway as already pointed out, this is off-topic so shut it down now  ;)
 

brokenhelmet

New member
Good report - a great read.

Zesty bevs are a must before caving.

Sounds much more efficient than another Marble Sink trip I've heard about...
 

adam

Member
brokenhelmet said:
Zesty bevs are a must before caving.

Very true, brokenhelmet. As are apr?s cave zesty bevs. In this case it was a delicately perfumed fentimans elderflower pre and a boojie little pink lemonade snapple post. I wouldn't have got out of that cave if there wasn't a zesty beverage waiting for me outside.
 

Alex

Well-known member
On a trip like Marble sink, where I don't think it would be possible to use life line on several pitches from the description. I need to see for myself!

On most trips some people like life-lining and some are not bothered, if that's the case in this cave you only need to take one rope, that you can just use on all the pitches by pulling it down with the last man.  The issue is you need to have someone who is confident enough to climb back up unprotected first. This approach reduces the risk, but of course it could break at any time, so there is still risk.  This is why in my view should only be done in caves like Marble sink, other caves that are easier you are just being lasy not bringing the rope, in-fact just use SRT hehe.

It's a personal risk thing. I prefer to be life-lined, call me a coward, I just don't like ladders unless the pitch means it's not possible. (Tight pitches, the rope will just get in the way).

 
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