Mendip Cave Rescue Response to Covid-19

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
A similar message from The British Diving Safety Group.

  "The consensus of the meeting was that the infrastructure to safely support recreational and technical diving activities are still lacking and requires more time to re-establish itself. Contamination risks remain too high during the preparation for diving and could put undue pressure on businesses who must operate safely and within the law.

More importantly, should emergency support be necessary, this would place an unacceptably high burden on rescue services and medical treatment facilities at a time when they are already stretched. For instance if an asymptomatic diver should need rescuing by the RNLI, and one or a number of the crew then catch the coronavirus, the whole lifeboat station will have to be quarantined. "
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Rob said:
More to the point, there's a "caving code" down there?!?  :confused:

The BCA has a "caving code" (link below) which says nothing about groups of 4:
https://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=conservation_access:bca_caving_code.pdf

The slightly more comprehensive (and slightly better presented) "Minimal Impact Caving Guidelines" (link below) also talk about group size, but again no numbers are specified.
https://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=conservation_access:micg.pdf 

Finally, I managed to find the MRO caving code from 1963. It is on page 718 at the following link, and recommends that it is not normally safe to cave in a group of less than four.  ;)
https://www.mcra.org.uk/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=articles:cave_rescue_on_mendip_-_alan_gray_nov_2019.pdf
 

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Bob Mehew

Well-known member
Ah, the minimum number game.  Yes long ago it was a statement from those on high that 4 was the minimum appropriate party size.  But that was in the days of ladders and lifelines where you needed a reasonable sized team to tackle any cave with pitches.  SRT has changed that. 

It also used to be said that caving was a team activity where people within the team did rely on the others.  SRT has changed that. 

It was also the case that the typical cost of ladder and lifeline for a trip was only affordable by a club.  But SRT has changed that.

NCA was set up when clubs were still necessary.  BCA was set up when this approach still ruled though substantially undermined.  But in order to get BCA afloat, it had to be accepted albeit it with individual membership due to the pesky insurance problem. 

Perhaps some day the minimum number will be one.  I would suggest 2 strikes the compromise whilst mobile phones don't work underground (yet).

PS the notice is on the CSCC web site, not MRC as suggested in another post.
 

Fjell

Well-known member
It?s not just pre-SRT, it?s pre-wetsuit. No self-respecting Mendip caver hasn?t freedived Swildons 2 and 3.
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
Now  I thought the numbers game was that in the event of an incident one person could stay with the casualty and two could go out safely and call the rescue services.  Am willing to be corrected of course.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Bob Mehew said:
Perhaps some day the minimum number will be one.  I would suggest 2 strikes the compromise whilst mobile phones don't work underground (yet).

Personally, I tend to do most of my caving solo, including long trips. I have justified it on the following grounds:
- There is no-one to drop something on you (most frequent cause of near miss in my experience)
- There is no-one to get stuck in front of you blocking the way out (yes, that's happened to me too, no names in case you read this Kev ;) )
- You are much more aware of danger alone, there is no false sense of security in numbers.
- There is never any pressure to do something you aren't comfortable with doing.
- You don't have to wait for anyone at every obstacle, decreasing waiting time, cold and fatigue.
- You can cave at your own pace.
- You don't have to share your Mars bar.

All the above mean you are much less likely to have an accident alone, albeit an accident would have more serious consequences.

It's standard risk assessment, likelihood vs consequence...

mrodoc said:
Now  I thought the numbers game was that in the event of an incident one person could stay with the casualty and two could go out safely and call the rescue services.  Am willing to be corrected of course.
That is what it states in the 1963 guidelines  :sneaky:
 

mikem

Well-known member
It may be copied on CSCC site, but was written by MCR.

& plenty of Mendip cavers don't like sumps...
 

Fjell

Well-known member
mikem said:
It may be copied on CSCC site, but was written by MCR.

& plenty of Mendip cavers don't like sumps...

As an 18 year-old I was led to believe it was a necessary beginners trip. Through the sumps and and then up that Pencil thing with the chain at the bottom. I didn?t want to do sump 4, it had worms in it, and that just didn?t seem quite right.
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
Oh Dear perhaps this forum should not encourage solo digging reports. It would never do to be seen encouraging rule breakers. Yes I have  dived Swildons sumps two and three but only with a bottle. Most of my deep wreck diving was solo. As stated there is more control and concentration when you are alone. If the so-called minimum of four cavers is a rule would insurance be invalidated with three of you ? We regularly dig with two or three as four would just be in each others way. Same old game " Rules are for fools and the avoidance of the wise ". There is a tendency today to blanket rules on everything when it often does not apply. Please no more trip or dig reports here if less than four in the party. I might have to complain.
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
PeteHall said:
Bob Mehew said:
Perhaps some day the minimum number will be one.  I would suggest 2 strikes the compromise whilst mobile phones don't work underground (yet).

Personally, I tend to do most of my caving solo, including long trips. I have justified it on the following grounds:
- There is no-one to drop something on you (most frequent cause of near miss in my experience)
- There is no-one to get stuck in front of you blocking the way out (yes, that's happened to me too, no names in case you read this Kev ;) )
- You are much more aware of danger alone, there is no false sense of security in numbers.
- There is never any pressure to do something you aren't comfortable with doing.
- You don't have to wait for anyone at every obstacle, decreasing waiting time, cold and fatigue.
- You can cave at your own pace.
- You don't have to share your Mars bar.

All the above mean you are much less likely to have an accident alone, albeit an accident would have more serious consequences.

It's standard risk assessment, likelihood vs consequence...

mrodoc said:
Now  I thought the numbers game was that in the event of an incident one person could stay with the casualty and two could go out safely and call the rescue services.  Am willing to be corrected of course.
That is what it states in the 1963 guidelines  :sneaky:
For most of the above reasons I have found scuba diving on my own more relaxing. All the most serious episodes I have been involved in were when I was diving with other people. I was taught to dive that way way back in1965.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
With a wetsuit and mask, Swildon's sump two and three are not a physical challenge and not uncomfortable, likewise sump 4, which while shorter, is much less appealing to look at. They are still a great psychological challenge though, that many very well respected Mendip cavers never overcome.

I have trained myself to overcome this (for many years water was my greatest fear in caving) and I now find these free-dives to be a very important part of my enjoyment of Swildon's. Just as you get closer to your surroundings by immersing yourself in the rock, you get closer still by immersing yourself in the water in the rock. This sense of "oneness with the cave" is very freeing and is best experienced alone, where there are not the distractions of other people. My first trip after lockdown will probably be a solo free-dive trip to Swildon's sump 9, after which, I will hopefully feel like a caver again  :)
 

Oceanrower

Active member
Fjell said:
mikem said:
It may be copied on CSCC site, but was written by MCR.

& plenty of Mendip cavers don't like sumps...

As an 18 year-old I was led to believe it was a necessary beginners trip. Through the sumps and and then up that Pencil thing with the chain at the bottom. I didn?t want to do sump 4, it had worms in it, and that just didn?t seem quite right.

My first ever trip was the Short Round in reverse (In case I bottled the sump. Better on the way in than the way out!) On a Saturday and Eastwater on the Sunday.

It's a wonder I ever came back!
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
Back on course. The real query here is the advice given by the MRO that safe caving should not be in parties of less than four. That is a red flag to any solicitor in a court of law where an incident has occurred within say a party of three. Coroners Courts are cold sterile places concerned only with points of law often operated by legal folk who have no idea regarding the subject under review. Therefore they refer to expert bodies whom I assume the MRO would be one locally on Mendip. Can anyone here please have an answer to my question as I am certainly not qualified to answer it myself.
 

mikem

Well-known member
That's almost certainly why the code no longer specifies numbers (& solicitors would be unlikely to pick up on it unless somebody posted it on a public forum :-\)
 

PeteHall

Moderator
The Statement from MRO has been published in various places online and circulated to (all?) local clubs, as is right for any such statement, otherwise why make it.

The question is really whether the MRO note relates to current guidance. It certainly doesn't reflect national guidance from the BCA or the recent statement from BCRC.

The only local guidance it reflects appears to be a few decades out of date. It would be useful if MRO were to clarify their statement in this regard. I have raised this with my club rep and await a response :)

 
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