Giant razor edge rope - Being replaced tomorrow

alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
a quick trip in giants tonight, found that razor edge rope is missing, probably washed away!


I have found some friendly cavers visiting tomorrow and am giving them a rope to put in.


Also, water in the bottom is quite high. Getting through the far curtain is no trouble, but water backed upto the top of the hand line down spout hall. It has also been higher, foam at the top of the short pitch to far curtain. But no foam at the bottom
Of geology pot, which I think I have seen before.
 
Oscar D

Oscar D

Active member
Noticed that missing rope the other week. To be honest, with the state it was in when I last used it, it?s probably been safer without it. Did feel odd without it though, so I?m glad a replacement has been organised  (y)
 
Samouse1

Samouse1

Well-known member
Was in the Trip with Oscar, and moaned about it being missing whilst sat at the top. Descending it wasn?t too much difficulty, apart from the more vertically challenged members of the party  :LOL:  Glad to hear its being replaced
 
Katie

Katie

Active member
Just asking the question but are you sure it is a good idea to replace it?

For years and years there wasn't a rope there. Only in recent years has one appeared. I have been through with numerous novices on one of their first few trips and never seen anyone have a problem. It was my 3rd caving trip and there was no rope and i am 5 foot 2! As you mention the place is affected by high water which has the potential to damage any rope left in place.  I would say it might be better not to have a rope than have one that has been left exposed to the conditions - Oscar has mentioned the rope wasn't in a good state when he last saw it which is not good if groups are relying on it! And if groups are worried about razor edge cascade they can just take a rope with them and then de-rig it!

 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
What Katie Said.  Leave the rope off.  Anyone not sure, or with novices can always take 10m or rope down anyhow just in case.

Isn't there a dry bypass to the left (heading down) anyway.
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
Yeh, well onboard with this, if they forget and it doesn?t get rigged that?s fine. If it does get rigged then it?s only 8m.

It was fine both up and down last night and didn?t stop me from not doing what I wanted to do. The high water stopped me from doing that.
 
Pete K

Pete K

Well-known member
I agree with Sam and Katie on this. A rope has historically not been in place here and I don't think it needs one there all the time. I'm really a very unconfident climber unless I'm on rope, but I don't have any issues with this climb. A short section of 8 or 9mm rope to rig up would almost fit in your pocket if you felt someone in your party needed a handline or lifeline. Would you not have a rope with you anyway for the pull-through?
It's a bit like the handline that appeared at the top of the Upper Stream passage heading towards the broken formations from a few years back, it is of course handy, but really not necessary at all. I'm always happy to see the handline in the Eating House though, I find that climb is desperate without it!
 
Katie

Katie

Active member
Yeah, I agree about the one out of the eating house! I have seen lots of people struggle on that climb even with the rope!
Also there is no raging streamway to damage that rope, and as most trips arrive at the bottom of it it would be hard to rig for each and every trip (someone would have to climb up without a rope, to put a rope on)
Whereas most trips arrive at the top of razor edge cascade, so very easy to put a rope on before tackling it. Everyone already brings ropes for Garlands so one extra short length of rope is hardly onerous!
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
I tend to pop over the top at the start of the trip rig it and abseil down, then I can leave the SRT kit there too. If the group I?m with like SRT descent more.

Pete K said:
Would you not have a rope with you anyway for the pull-through?
Click to expand...
 
al

al

Member
I agree with Katie & Pete K. When the rope first appeared a few years back, I thought it was a mistake because it tended to make people "follow the water" rather than climbing through the window, which is actually much easier, and lets folk know why the cascade was so named.

As SamT said, there is a by-pass which isn't too bad in descent, but ascent can be a good boulder problem.

WRT pre-rigging the descent into the crabwalk, you might as well carry on and do the whole thing widdershins - which I reckon is the best way to do the round trip.
 
C

Chocolate fireguard

Active member
I have never thought a rope necessary, and I am only little. As Al says a short slide down the razor  :eek: and there is a big foothold down on the left.
The only bypass I know of in Crabwalk is the one round Comic Act on the left. Or am I getting confused? I must have been down there well over 50 times, but it is about 3 years since the last time.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
My avatar at left is the bottom of it. Also is this the little bypass you mean?
 

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C

Chocolate fireguard

Active member
pwhole said:
My avatar at left is the bottom of it. Also is this the little bypass you mean?
Click to expand...
It might be. I never paid it much attention. I don't use it on the way down and I know I can't climb up it. Which cascade is it at?
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
It's the top of Razor Edge, as far as I remember- it's a tube that's parallel to to the wet climb. Trouble is I was shooting for abstract beauty rather than rigging positions, but the best I have.
 
Cantclimbtom

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
al said:
...you might as well carry on and do the whole thing widdershins - which I reckon is the best way to do the round trip.
Click to expand...
Please please never write guides, or there'll be lots of confused people lost underground thinking " which way round were widdershins and deosil?" Unless of course it's a guide for someone you don't like on which case give crucial directions at junctions in terms of starboard and larboard ;)
 
ANN

ANN

New member
Pete K said:
I agree with Sam and Katie on this. A rope has historically not been in place here and I don't think it needs one there all the time. I'm really a very unconfident climber unless I'm on rope, but I don't have any issues with this climb. A short section of 8 or 9mm rope to rig up would almost fit in your pocket if you felt someone in your party needed a handline or lifeline. Would you not have a rope with you anyway for the pull-through?
Click to expand...
Fully agree.  I am only tiny and never had a problem.  Also  a tendency to rely on a fixed rope if it is in place!
 
P

Phild

New member
Pete K said:
I agree with Sam and Katie on this. A rope has historically not been in place here and I don't think it needs one there all the time. I'm really a very unconfident climber unless I'm on rope, but I don't have any issues with this climb. A short section of 8 or 9mm rope to rig up would almost fit in your pocket if you felt someone in your party needed a handline or lifeline. Would you not have a rope with you anyway for the pull-through?
It's a bit like the handline that appeared at the top of the Upper Stream passage heading towards the broken formations from a few years back, it is of course handy, but really not necessary at all. I'm always happy to see the handline in the Eating House though, I find that climb is desperate without it!
Click to expand...
I agree about no rope on razor, but one on Eating House. We always used to climb it but on a recent trip I tried to climb up and backed off. Nasty fall and I can lead E5 outdoors. There never used to be a rope on the traverse, the climb down to Geology and Spout Hall
 
adep

adep

Member
I agree with many answers on here, leave it off no need for it, never used one when i used to take groups in there, if there is a rope on it then it has to be maintained as it will get damaged
 
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