Worthwhile Cave-Camp trips 3 hours plus from the car

alastairgott

Well-known member
I've never done any "proper" cave camping trips, always trying to get out in time for a proper meal, warm bed, insert other excuse.


I want to do my first cave-camp in the UK/Dales preferably with some SRT involved too.


It is something which I've had said to me quite a few times by various people that I need to prepare myself for camping, but I've got an objective now which needs me to "learn".


If anyone can think of anywhere where I can potentially do this and maybe wield a crowbar or do some more caving beyond the "campsite" then I would like some ideas. otherwise I'll end up doing some double sport trip like Nick Pot (never done it) followed by Stream Passage Pot to camp in sand caverns.


But I would like some better more useful ideas. :)
 

nobrotson

Active member
Langcliffe Pot, Gassons Series. You could dig the choke in Near Fearnought Streamway.
Penyghent Pot, Norman Bates Motel, to access the extensions.

The only two non-diving trips in the Dales I can think of where camping could be beneficial (over 3 hours in as you say with no other convenient exits). But personally I'd just do a longer caving trip and move lighter. Your gear will almost certainly get wet travelling to both campsites. And if not it will be very very heavy with the necessary waterproofing making the trip very unpleasant.

Maybe some areas of GG (Whitsun Series or Far Waters), but I've never been so don't know about campsites.

Just go to South Wales.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
hmm, ok, some food for thought there Rotson. You're probably right just go to Hard Rock.

It's just so I can hit some objectives in the summer. One of which is a bolt climb (which i'm also gearing up to learning), so i'm probably going to be tired after that.
But (i'm told) if I can give myself the option of camping then I can probably divert to some surveying, then sleep and get back on the climb before doing a bit more surveying and exiting the cave back to the car 3 hours later.


If I don't camp then i'll probably end up only doing 1 of the tasks I need to do. so something which could theoretically take 2 days (with a camp) takes 4 days without one, and I'll probably get bored of going in and out like a gofer.


I'm therefore told it makes sense to learn how to camp  :blink:
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
I have only camped underground in Daren, but it taught me so much, whilst still feeling very manageable because there's so much kit there and it's dry and comfy.

I would say, though, that you'll have a much nicer time if you learn to sleep on your back. I'm a side/front sleeper and have been actively working on sleeping on my back more to make cave camping achievable, since side and front are excruciatingly uncomfortable on a hard floor!
 

mikem

Well-known member
By the sound of it you're not going to be able to carry bolting, surveying & camping kit all in in one go, so could still take 4 days (although one less trip in & out when you camp).
 

Maj

Active member
It's surprising how quickly your camping essentials add up weight & volume wise. What you think is a reasonable weight to carry soon become a heavy load. A Daren camp is a good intro to camping underground since a lot of the logistics, some essential kit, water, comfy seats  ;) are already in place. Caving into Daren through the entrance crawl in particular certainly helps you to evaluate what's necessary and what's an unnecessary luxury/burden.

You're welcome to join us on a Daren camp. There is a possibility we may have one next weekend (14th - 16th).
Dates for the rest of this year still to be finalised, let us know if interested.

We usually head in on a Friday afternoon/evening and out on Sunday afternoon.

Maj. 
 

Ian Ball

Well-known member
If you are keen on the Dales as a location, I would contact the CNCC first as I'm sure most of the access agreements exclude camping.

One location which might work though would need some setting up would be Stump Cross/Mongo Gill?  I've not been but after Mr Workman's efforts, it must be suitable for camping.
Perhaps you could put some effort into the unstable blocked connection shown on this survey?

http://www.cavemaps.org/surveys/cpc/full/CPC%20R100%20Stump%20Cross%20Caverns%20-%20Mongo%20Gill.png

Good luck.

 

Simon Beck

Member
Good suggestion Rob! You got me thinking about something I've been considering myself for ten plus years, though what I'm doing presently is definitely the easier of the two and for the time being I'm doubtful I'll be straying.

I've never camped underground either and certainly wouldn't just for the sake of it, though I wouldn't hesitate if it was a necessary component at some point.

With regard Langcliffe Pot and work beyond Nemesis and the further reaches/Gasson Series etc it's also something I wouldn't consider again without camping. Neither is it something you could do on a whim and hope to be a success, the camping yes, but not where digging is concerned. Maybe with a big team, but that suggestion these days is totally unrealistic.
I wouldn't necessarily throw myself at the Newfearnought Choke either. There's definitely cave beyond it, but cave that probably goes upwards only - something I've suspected (emphasis on suspect) to be fed by Swarthgill Hole (which would be easier to dig to from up there) - whereas the real prize and the only justification for camping and pushing Langcliffe would be the stuff that lies below - descending and reaching the Great Scar Limestone.
The problem with the choke is if you realise you definitely need scaffold, it's a very very long way to be carrying that stuff and the chances are you'll turn to something else before enduring that, unless you've the ubiquitous unrealistic pub big team at your disposal. Bailing the Dementer Sump for example would be a far more worthwhile objective, an idea that occurred during a visit with Ian in 2010, but the possibilities are many.. The area around the Agora is another!

The further reaches of Langcliffe Pot is a strange place, where metres seem stretched unfathomably. The survey suggests nothing more than a quick bimble to the end beyond Nemesis, yet on the ground it's the most significant stretch of the entire trip, with (if you ask me) no end of hazards, which for the most part are untouched by hands even now.
I've visited the Gasson Series four times and everytime paid attention to potential sights of interest for digging, yet become so inundated I've quickly given up, just by the sheer sprawl and diversity along that stretch of cave. You realise pretty quickly the need to concentrate as well. It's as much an enigma now as it was before I'd even visited, and only read of others experiences.

Four of us lead by B-Judd climbed an aven just upstream of Dementer Sump in 2016, after several prep trips, with really only rope and ironmongery, and on the day personal gear and food, yet that in itself seemed a considerable amount of effort for only a handful of hours to climb an aven. Although an account of this trip exists some of the facts were wrong and it has been my intention to write it up myself. Something I may well do with it in mind. Anyway the trip was a success with an unclimbed feature climbed and, i think, 40 metres ish of new stuff entered by two of us, and the possibility of more in the vicinity. Digging down there, esp trying something new is satisfying enough, even without finding new stuff. I was in a squigy wetsuit for 18 hours that trip! Those who've done it dressed like that will agree you're wearing sandpaper from word go.

If it wasn't for the two projects I've got on (Black Edge Choke and Syphon Passage) I'd probably be game for it. One of the reasons I chose Mossdale, aside from my favouritism for the cave, is the fact that every worthwhile digging spot is quicker to access than any of Langcliffe's. I probably wouldn't be digging solo as much down Langcliffe either, the objective hazards down there are significantly greater than Mossdale, and mainly relate to loose rock, the passing of chokes, and stuff that causes trips and falls.. 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do Alastair.
 

David Rose

Active member
What an interesting post, Simon.

I'm a side/front sleeper too, and have camped quite a bit underground over the years. I don't think you can train yourself to sleep on your back, so the solution is a Thermarest or equivalent - more weight, but better sleep.

At the camp at the bottom of the Riesending entrance series at -920 metres, where I've spent a total of 5 nights, there is another approach. Because of the big rescue in 2014, there are so many foam mats there everyone can use TEN each - enough to make a really comfortable double bed sized spot on the sand. I realise that may not be practical in normal circumstances. There are also so many good quality, cosy sleeping bags every member of a party of five can use two. 
 

Simon Beck

Member
Something that failed to follow when I cut&paste from notepad was a further comment on Swarthgill Hole and how surprised I am it isn't being pushed. Even just to visit, it's one of the best short sharp sport trips in the north. I (w/Ian Cummins) visited the final chamber on a few occasions prior to those Langcliffe trips spring 2016 and had a dig at a few spots. We concluded; it would need some scaffolding to make safe the area to prod at the lowest furthest point in the choke. The draught in the cave during those trips was considerable! The similar volume of water (under normal conditions) and the draught are a few of the reasons I suspect the two (Swarthgill Hole / New Fearnought Streamway) link up, aside from the hunch aspect that is.

Something I forgot to mention regarding the unrealistic big team approach to digging Langcliffe is; it would work if it was approached in the same manner expeditions are, especially where the collective time off work is concerned. David's comment reminded me of this, though I'm not sure if it's something I deduced myself or heard somebody else say once..
 

nobrotson

Active member
Simon Beck said:
The further reaches of Langcliffe Pot is a strange place, where metres seem stretched unfathomably. The survey suggests nothing more than a quick bimble to the end beyond Nemesis, yet on the ground it's the most significant stretch of the entire trip, with (if you ask me) no end of hazards, which for the most part are untouched by hands even now.

Completely agree with you on this Simon, I remember quite a few climbing sections where I thought 'if you fall here, you've proper fucked it...' even though technically easy objectively these sections certainly did not feel trivial so far into the cave.

I really need to visit again... an amazing place.
 
Norman Bates Motel was initially a brew/meal stop and was somewhere that an unlucky party once spent 17 hours not camping in wetsuits. Not sure anyone ever actually camped (you are  ?virtually out? anyway) although a few people did nod off there.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
undergroundHP:
I know of people camping in sand cavern in GG. Dry and spacious in there.

My wife-to-be (many years ago) had a 40th birthday party there, with an overnight camp.
 
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