I'm on the cusp of returning to the fold................what are the significant changes I should expect given that my last cave (Diccan) was in 1987..........

Things like
nobody uses gas lights now ????
Eco anchors
Lots more folk active
booking systems?

What's new and good, what's new and not so good?

I returned to the sport after a lengthy break.

With regards to SRT nowt much has changed(I stopped in the early nineties).
Frog is still de-rigure for most UK cavers..coupled with a foot mounted pantin.

The biggest change in the last 20 years is lighting...LED is king! Loads of lights on the market to suit all budgets from the Petzl duo...and its array of after market inserts to the dogs bolox, bat frying Scurions.

Apart from the wettest of situations Furry suit/over suit is mainly used...again loads of suits on the market to suit all tastes and conditions.....Obviously there is still a place for wet suits...but there is also the 'Neo Fleece'...a great bit of kit for wetter places but does not inhibit leg or arm movement.

Thats about it really....oh, except the miles upon miles of passage thats been discovered since 87.

topcat said:

Lots more folk active

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Definitely not.

Caving in the Dales for example in the 80's and 90's there were definitely a LOT more cavers around.

Caving in the Dales for example in the 80's and 90's there were definitely a LOT more cavers around.

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I remember having to queue to get into the 'Fountain' cafe..or Bernies...then queue to go down Simpsons or Swinsto.....providing you could get parked up on Kingsdale.

Ladders are used much less than they used to be - even in places where they make perfect sense.

Unicycling is pretty big these days, you'll have difficulty keeping up with all the young ones as they scoot off into the distance.

Subpopulus Hibernia said:

Unicycling is pretty big these days, you'll have difficulty keeping up with all the young ones as they scoot off into the distance.

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......Or you could leave the young 'uns to it and kick back with a brew and enjoy a firework display?!? HMM!!

Ah - you will find all your old mates have got quite a bit older.... 

In response to the OP and off the top of my head:-

Some of the SRT equipment has become more miniaturised, such as the Croll and Basic jammers - 30% smaller but 40% stronger.

Stops remain pretty much the same; Pantins have been around for more than 25 years so they're not new but certainly have a greater fanbase than previously - they, too, are now miniaturised by comparison with the earlier models.

SRT harnesses - there's loads more choice now; central connector options include triact-locking and screwgate Omni; the descender connector Freino has largely replaced the Raumer Handy.

Factory-made cowstails are available, such as Spelegyca and others; the Alpine SRT layout (French) differs from the UK insofar as it does away with the separate connector to the footloop and instead utilises the long cowstail as the footloop connector - since mid rope rescue has changed a lot the supposed benefit of the footloop connector for 2:1 deadlift ascension is largely redundant; rope cutting is far more commonplace in rescue scenarios - using cord instead of a knife to sever the rope for safety (i.e. avoiding stabbing people!) is commonplace.

Comfortable adjustable bra-style chest harnesses have replaced the 3m of tape which used to be standard issue.

Micro-, mini- and pro-traxions have revolutionised rescue, especially pitch head hauling.

Micro-ascenders such as the kong and ropeman have (not entirely though) replaced the fiddlesomeness of prusik loops.

Class L ropes such as Beal 8mm mean a solo SRT caver can now carry enough gear to descend 1,000ft shafts without dying of exhaustion and a range of super-light rigging techniques, bolts, plates etc. are finding greater currency than ever before.

Near-full-strength micro-carabiners are also becoming commonly incorporated in rigging and personal SRT rigs.

We've yet to see titanium micro-descenders for use on 7mm and 8mm ropes but I reckon if they don't already exist they will do within five years.

Having said all that, you'll still routinely bump into many cavers whose SRT gear hasn't changed one jot; some still use their original set of cowstails. After all, it stands to reason that if it hasn't broken yet then obviously it never will.

Following on where Chris left off:

Since Pantins have become popular, rigging styles have changed. The preference is now to rig just off the wall where practical, as the caver can easily balance himself against the wall, and can even use a ropewalking action without getting too tired.

Previously rebelays were used only to avoid rope rub. Now they are also used to split big pitches into smaller sections, to allow more cavers to climb simultaneously (and also reducing rope bounce).

On the continent rigging techniques continue to improve. For example, they now use 5 mm dyneema cord to make slings, and untie the sling when derigging. The sling is tied using a figure-8 loop in expansion with long tails.

At what can only be described as the cutting edge, Beal has made a 7 mm rope for caving. Whether they bring it to market is another question.

Some interesting developments then!

Re cows tails: is anybody using via farrata kit? 

I see Petzl do a set of cows tails (not VF) for caving made from tape, which I understood was def. not recommended: use dynamic rope, not tape?

IIRC Via Ferrata equipment is designed to absorb shock loading in situations with the fall factor can be as high as 6; caving cannot generate such high fall factors so using VF kit would be an expensive and needless application.

The Petzl sewn textile cows tails (Spelegyca) have been demonstrated to potentially be injurious, if slipping and generating a shock load while connected direct to anchors, rather than clipped into a traverse line; dynamic rope cowstails are arguably a better choice if you intend to fall onto your cows tails routinely. I'm not saying that it never happens but certainly from experience I have yet to see someone doing this as the best practice is for traverses to be rigged high and for cows tails to be constantly in tension while progressing, meaning a shock-loading fall is nigh-on impossible. This would not be the case if the rigging is appalling, e.g.:

Cap'n Chris said:

IIRC Via Ferrata equipment is designed to absorb shock loading in situations with the fall factor can be as high as 6

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There is no theoretical limit on the fall factors in Via Ferrata. It depends on how far apart the anchors are. Having said that, manufacturers recommend [PDF] using belaying techniques if the anchors on a vertical run are more than about 3 metres apart, since this could generate up to a factor 5 fall (but you can get away with 4 metres if you're not a moron).

My dad fell off a 700 metre cliff and was saved by his Ferrata set, but severely bruised. We estimated a factor 5 fall. In caving cowstails, of course, he would be dead.

the best practice is for traverses to be rigged high and for cows tails to be constantly in tension while progressing, meaning a shock-loading fall is nigh-on impossible.

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Certainly this is best practice and highly recommended. However there are many circumstances where perfect rigging is not practical. In such circumstances it is reassuring to know your cowstails can take a fall without killing you.

The Petzl Spelegyca is much worse at shock absorption than knotted dynamic rope cowstails. However it's worth noting that the Spelegyca is much better than any homemade cowstails made from tape or slings, which should never be used.

OK  - I will bite , what is a fall factor 5 ???????????????????

IMHO :

FF1 = a fall of x m with x meters of rope between the anchor and the victim

FF2 - a fall of 2x m with x meters of rope between the anchor and the victim

how the fook can you fall 5 m with only 1m of rope between victim and anchor ?

Have a car attached to your legs??

My understanding is, climbing vertically 4m after an anchor point you fall 4m back to the anchor point + your 1m cowstails. With correct Via ferrata gear you should survive but would need new cowstails and probably clean underwear.

Ian P said:

My understanding is, climbing vertically 4m after an anchor point you fall 4m back to the anchor point + your 1m cowstails. With correct Via ferrata gear you should survive but would need new cowstails and probably clean underwear.

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Exactly right.

The "cowstails" incorporate an energy absorber. Modern sets nowadays use rip-out stitching, and many have an indicator to show whether they should be replaced after a fall.

The sets are calibrated carefully by the manufacturer. Special sets are required for children or very heavy people.

I was in the Dolomites recently, and I would say about 1/3 of climbers were using just a couple of slings and carabiners. And most of those were children whose parents had proper kit. :

One child didn't even have a harness, and was just tethered around the waist with a climbing rope!

Another child was "helped" by his father to cross from one section of wire to the next. His father unclipped both carabiners before reattaching them. :blink:

My understanding is, climbing vertically 4m after an anchor point you fall 4m back to the anchor point + your 1m cowstails.

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Exactly; but to clarify, the safety wires on a VF are often more-or-less vertical, so the anchor points could be 4 m apart vertically, and if you come off your krab slides down the cable until it smacks into the lower belay point. Nice.