The SWCC AGM is looming, and inevitably there is going to be a discussion about our cottage fees - it's in our constitution that these are set by the meeting. I hear mutterings on the club grapevine along the lines of 'we're the cheapest caving hut in the UK' and I think there is a groundswell of opinion that we need a price rise.

As the person who will have to chair the discussion I would like it to be properly informed and not misled by those, on either side of the argument, who have axes to grind.

So my question is: if your club has an HQ, what do you charge, per night, for members and for visitors? What does this price include? (Do you, for example, have an extra charge for showers?)

I would also welcome input from those with experience of similar accommodation, such as climbing huts, commercially-run bunkhouses and so on.

For the record, SWCC is currently ?2.50 for members, ?4.50 for guests and visiting clubs (although pre-booked university clubs pay ?3.50). We do, though, have reciprocal rights with a number of other clubs which means that our members and theirs pay members' rates when using each other's accommodation.

Many thanks in advance.

(Footnote: I do not want this thread to be hijacked by SWCC members voicing their opinions about our hut fees! If you want to do this come to the AGM.)   

WCMS "Stump" fees are:
?3.00 for ONE night, ?5.00 for TWO nights (a 'normal' weekend) plus ?3.00 for each extra night.
Non-member guests pay ?4.00 for each night they stay.

For Orpheus CC it's ?5 for visitors and ?2.50 for Members for overnight stays per night and ?1 Day Fee if using the cottage but not staying overnight.

No extra charges other than 50p in drying room electric meter if you want to use it.

We've always used the price of a pint as a guide for the level of Member's Fees!

paul said:

We've always used the price of a pint as a guide for the level of Member's Fees!

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Funnily enough, this has always been the supposed benchmark at SWCC, but I have no idea why. It's completely irrelevant.

At the Belfry, we charge ? 2:50 per night for Members, and ? 4:00 for Guests, with no extra fees for showers.  The same fees are also applicable to those who camp in the Snake Pit.
  Again, it seems to be index linked to the average price of a pint in Priddy, (Roger charging slightly less than the Vic or the New Inn).

At YSS hut it's ?3.00 members, ?5.00 none members unless there in accomdation sharing clubs.

Again bear price is a factor because the Helwith bridge charges around ?3.00 for a pint.

Beer the universal currently of caving!

Compare these charges to ?16 per night for a bunk at The Dalesbridge Centre - the clubs are amazingly cheap, at double the price they would still be cheap.  It's hard to imagine price resistance from folk who probably spend several times that amount in the pub over the average weekend.  Assuming the clubs are getting sufficient revenue from the current rates then long may it continue.

The price resistance is more likely to come from those whose greatest cost over the weekend is fuel, driving several hundred miles to get there, and if taking family members with them are unable to lift share or spend too much in the pub. Anyway, that is a digression from the real purpose of Tony's post.

BPC is similar - ?2.50 for members/reciprocal rights, ?5 visiting cavers, ?10 visiting non cavers

Mendip Caving Group - hut fees are ?5 non-members, ?2.50 members. Inclusive (eg includes showers, charging, WIFI, use of library) except that only members and their personal guests may use the tackle.

It is worth adding, we do not charge "day fees" for members and their accompanied guests. Instead, members pay ?5 per year as part of their subs for unlimited "day use". This includes, use of all the facilities for a member (showers, cooking, tackle etc) and his/her personal guests so you only pay cottage fees if you sleep/camp at the cottage. We can do this because we are a charity and receive Gift Aid on our annual subs, this covers the cost of the "day use".

Our accounts are kept in such a way that cottage inc/exp is recorded seperately from other inc/exp (the other inc/exp is the "general fund" and "investments").  Initially, cottage fees are set such that a small annual surplus is made. As costs rise, this surplus reduces year by year until the cottgage begins to run at a small deficit. Once the deficit exceeds previous year's surpluses we raise the fees and the account goes back into a surplus....... We do of course keep an eye on what other clubs charge, and may hold off increasing fees if we feel it would disadvanage us, ie if guests could find similar accomodation much cheaper.

Personally, I feel that ?5 or ?2.50 per night is peanuts and all clubs should be charging considerably more. These rates only cover running costs and do not, for eg, contribute to any "sinking fund" for future repairs and renewals. But as long as "rival" clubs charge fees at aroung ?5/?2.50 there is not much point in MCG trying to charge ?10 guests/ ?5 members??

At Whitewalls Chelsea SS charge ?2.50 for members/reciprocal rights, ?5 for visitors per night. A 50p day fee for just changing/shower.

sorry, Im just a caver passing a slightly off-topic view ... typically using MCG, YSS and OCC  (and hopefully in the future WCMS or SWCC again; if only Wales had more verticals).
 
For most ?out of area? caver's the fuel cost getting to a cottage and using it for a typical weekend,  buying beer, wine, food, caving trespass fee, obviously far out weights the minimal nightly fees charged. Therefore anyone arguing that the cottage fee determines usage I would take issue with as just carefully sharing a vehicle is likely more advantageous.

It seems to me that caving cottages undercharge - but are reluctant to increase their fees unless others do likewise first ? a catch 22 situation.

Personally, UKP 5 per night for members and UKP 10 per night for guests would seem exceptionally reasonable if considering YHA fees !!!!     

This could then mean a lowering of annual fees, or better investment 

If one club adopted this, I wonder how quickly this would be the norm 

For the Wessex, Members: ?2.50,  Students: ?3.50, Non-Members ?5.00. Free accommodation for the Leader of groups of 10 or more.  The only additional charge is 20p for showers.

There is an honesty box for day fees ?1 suggested and a donations box towards the WiFi.

The last two rises ?4 to ?4.50 then ?4.50 to ?5.00 were done on the basis that if we move first the other clubs will follow. But that hasn't happened, the two nearest clubs still charge ?4. However it seems to have had no effect on the numbers staying.

One problem with charging too much is that then you are clearly running a business and the tax man will come after you.

the two nearest clubs still charge ?4. However it has seems to have had no effect on the numbers staying.

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I'm not overly familiar with Mendip huts/cave locations but in other regions people tend to stay in huts closest to the caves they want to do (do they? That's what I do anyway!)
Take South Wales as an example and two extremes; SWCC for DYO/OFD and CSS for Daren/Aggy, so if one charges slightly more than the other I'd still go to the one most suited to the planned trips rather than spending even more on fuel travelling from one side to the other..

IMHO fees of ?4-5 are silly cheap thee days. Think of a car driven to Wales from London for the weekend is going to use, what, ?50 of fuel. A pub dinner is often ?7-8.

Makes the hut fees seem disproportionately low. I'd like to see some rise, but with a bit of reinvestment in the huts, typically to improve showers, mattreses replacing ancient aluminium cooking pots etc.

UK huts are pretty grotty compared to the continent!

I know the NPC charge ?4.50 to non-members and I also know that the 50p difference between theirs and the YSS fees are the reason at least one Uni club stays at the NPC ... they tell me the ?15 makes the difference between a trip making a loss and making a small profit.

AndyF said:

IMHO fees of ?4-5 are silly cheap thee days. Think of a car driven to Wales from London for the weekend is going to use, what, ?50 of fuel. A pub dinner is often ?7-8.

Makes the hut fees seem disproportionately low. I'd like to see some rise, but with a bit of reinvestment in the huts, typically to improve showers, mattreses replacing ancient aluminium cooking pots etc.

UK huts are pretty grotty compared to the continent!

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We consider the hut fees at each AGM and are guided by the Treasurer as to whether they cover the running expenses and repairs, etc. If they do, we don't increase them. There are only two caving huts in the Peak, ours and the TSG's Chapel so it isn't a question of not raising fees to prevent cavers going elsewhere. The facilities are basic, sure, but they are what is expected.

The hut and its facilities are primarily for the Members but we also accept visitors to stay, and they are most welcome, and as there seems to be no shortage in demand, I would say they are happy with the level of accommodation and the price charged.

Peter Burgess said:

WCMS "Stump" fees are:
?3.00 for ONE night, ?5.00 for TWO nights (a 'normal' weekend) plus ?3.00 for each extra night.
Non-member guests pay ?4.00 for each night they stay.

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And we have just introduced a new rate specifically for Geoff: ?5 per night as requested, plus an extra ?10 per night for storing and cleaning any ropes he forgets to take home with him.

Grampian Speleological Group hut ?2.50 members (& for members of clubs with agreements on sharing access to huts) non members ?5 plus electricity meter (which mainly powers the showers) which only takes ?1 coins and supply your own coal / wood for the fire (there is no other major heating source though water pipes are trace heated).

Craven Pothole Club members ?3.50 (& for members of clubs with reciprocal rights) guests of members ?5.