I was wondering what the state of the anchors in Pippikin are like. I heard a rumour that it has been bolted. Anyone got any info on this?

There's pitches in there that usually are rigged. I can't recall any/many of them that are rigged off of natural

Went through last week and it was all rigged on rope in decent condition.  If I remember correctly it is rigged off p bolts/naturals/scaff bars.

The squeeze above the scaffbar pitch (that you drop onto) had some sort of rope rigged off a jammed block thread, don't know what it was for though.

Many looking like in-situ tapes off scaff bars and the odd short section of rope, I don't remember any spits, but neither do I remember glue-ins either - only the caving!

Enjoy.

Indeed http://www.cncc.org.uk/access/details.php?id=190

Thanks a lot guys

The pitches in Pippikin were derigged at the weekend.  The ropes were knackered.  And there's no need for it to be permanently rigged; so take your own ropes (and take them out afterwards).

There's  a full description and rigging guide at http://easegill.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Pippikin_Pot.  There are P bolts for the first three pitches.

Gavin

I think the reason the ropes where left in there was to make a through trip from Top sink a far less logistical nightmare. Without the ropes you would have to spend the whole weekend up there. One day to rig them and then another day to do the trip. Some of us don't get the whole weekend to do caving. I guess there is plenty of Euro Speleo rope hanging around to replace them with.

Speaking of which anyone know the current state of the ropes near and on the 88ft pitch?

I think it's more likely that the ropes (two on most pitches) had just been abandoned.  I don't see any evidence that anyone was maintaining them.

I take your point about the logistics of doing a traverse, but don't think this is a good reason to keep the cave rigged.  It has the side-effect of making the cave less challenging, which I consider a bad thing.  The best way to do a traverse is probably as an exchange trip.

Both Echo Pot and the 88' Pitch are rigged, as is Oche Pot (parallel to Echo).  The rope on Echo seemed fine to me when I was there a couple of months back.  I don't know about the 88' Pitch, but have heard no worrying reports.  Of course, you use them at your own risk.  There is talk of derigging them both (which I would support).

Gavin

Forget a through trip from Top Sink, a through trip to or from anywhere is much easier with fixed ropes. Echange trips are nice, but try doing an exchange solo!

When I come up to the Dales for the weekend, I really enjoy the fact that I can just get on with a bit of sporting caving in Ease Gill, knowing I don't need to carry too much kit, or come back the way I went in.

If you want an authentic experience, nobody is stopping you spending all weekend going down Pippikin with hemp ladders. The fixed ropes just allow those who want a sporting through trip to do so without the need to carry so much kit.

I was down Pippikin a few weeks ago and I thought the ropes were in much better condition than I have often seen them in the past. The final pitch was pretty rubbed through at the natural anchor, but otherwise everythnig seemed pretty ok. In the 10 years or so I have been visiting Ease Gill, it has seemed to be the case that when a fixed rope wears out, someone replaces it with another (usually old) bit of rope that is more servicable. Not maintained as such, but kept vaguely servicable by those who visit the caves.

While we're at it, how about removing the ladder at Stop Pot? How about the handlines throughout the system?

Which reminds me, did Ray Duffy's list of all fixed aids in Ease Gill get compiled or published?

I agree Pete, yes exchange trips are great for big clubs but not everyone can get enough people to do them. We rarely get more than 3 on the same trip each weekend and even if we did an exchange trip on a difficult system like that its not guaranteed the other party will make it all the way through or puts undue pressure on them to do so and don't forget timings of it all with the 88ft pitch gone how the heck do you time it right on a big trip like that so that the other group is not down there for ages.

I personally think the ropes should be replaced rather than removed and as I said there should be plenty of rope out there to do it. Gavin was this done as part of Red rose rope removal thing or was this something you did off your own back? If we replace the rope at some point are you going to remove it again because you don't agree with it?

I do take the point that in-situ ropes could be dangerous it is up to the user however to check if they wish to use it or not, prob always best to bring a bit of rope along for this sort of trip but should not be the case of having to rig the whole system each time.

When I come up to the Dales for the weekend, I really enjoy the fact that I can just get on with a bit of sporting caving in Ease Gill, knowing I don't need to carry too much kit, or come back the way I went in.

Click to expand...

So on that theme, are we allowed to permanently rig the Swildons 20 so it'll be easier for us to do the through trip. Possibly with 4 bits of tatty rope, none of which we are sure how old or reliable they are.

No because that one is easy to pre-rig, even if doing it solo. Pip is not. We had a similar debate with Valley entrance though and that ended up with a rope on it anyway hehe. The other issue with Swildons is the rope is subject to all that water so will wear out quickly, pip is largely dry and less visited.

andychapm said:

When I come up to the Dales for the weekend, I really enjoy the fact that I can just get on with a bit of sporting caving in Ease Gill, knowing I don't need to carry too much kit, or come back the way I went in.

Click to expand...

So on that theme, are we allowed to permanently rig the Swildons 20 so it'll be easier for us to do the through trip. Possibly with 4 bits of tatty rope, none of which we are sure how old or reliable they are.

Click to expand...

Generally, I have no problem at all with fixed aids in caves, it is up to the caver to assess their condition and decide whether to use them or not. However there are places where a fixed aid is not appropriate.

Ropes on entrances are laible to attract non-cavers who may have an accident. In a cave like Swildons which is visited by many inexperienced cavers, the Twenty provides a natural barrier; as with cave entrances, fixed rigging here could encourage those without the experience required to venture further than they are competant and have an accident. There are other cases where as Alex says, the environment is not suitable, be it water, loose rock or whatever else.

As for the Twenty, like Alex says, it is easy to pre-rig, or you can just free-climb it anyway.

The other thing to point out is that there are very few through trips possible in Mendip as very few caves have more than one entrance, so more often than not, you have to come back the way you went in. Since Ease Gill has so many possible entrances and routes, I rarely travel down the same passage twice in one trip. The fixed aids in place make this possible and I am very grateful to those who abandoned them there. 

PeteHall said:

andychapm said:

When I come up to the Dales for the weekend, I really enjoy the fact that I can just get on with a bit of sporting caving in Ease Gill, knowing I don't need to carry too much kit, or come back the way I went in.

Click to expand...

So on that theme, are we allowed to permanently rig the Swildons 20 so it'll be easier for us to do the through trip. Possibly with 4 bits of tatty rope, none of which we are sure how old or reliable they are.

Click to expand...

Generally, I have no problem at all with fixed aids in caves, it is up to the caver to assess their condition and decide whether to use them or not. However there are places where a fixed aid is not appropriate.

Ropes on entrances are laible to attract non-cavers who may have an accident. In a cave like Swildons which is visited by many inexperienced cavers, the Twenty provides a natural barrier; as with cave entrances, fixed rigging here could encourage those without the experience required to venture further than they are competant and have an accident. There are other cases where as Alex says, the environment is not suitable, be it water, loose rock or whatever else.

As for the Twenty, like Alex says, it is easy to pre-rig, or you can just free-climb it anyway.

The other thing to point out is that there are very few through trips possible in Mendip as very few caves have more than one entrance, so more often than not, you have to come back the way you went in. Since Ease Gill has so many possible entrances and routes, I rarely travel down the same passage twice in one trip. The fixed aids in place make this possible and I am very grateful to those who abandoned them there. 

Click to expand...

Fully agree with your stance on this Pete.

If people want to rig pippikin they can do so even if it is pre-rigged. No need to use the ropes in there.

Hard trips are available elsewhere too.

Looking at doing Pippikin this Saturday - has anyone been there recently and knows if there are any in situ ropes now? This thread makes it look like they have been removed.

Ropes were in situ when I did the traverse at NCHECC a month ago, no reason to think this has changed. It has been fully re-equipped with resin anchors since this thread was last active.

Excellent, thanks!