Spanish cave paintings, possibly done by Neaderthals

whitelackington

New member
O.K. but I do not read Spanish but I know someone who does, Miguel one of the MCG blokes I dig with at Battery Swallet.
I gathered from the Daily Mail article that nearby organic material had been Carbon dated to plus 40,000 years but they said the paintings of the seals had not yet been dated (partly because of money) but also you have to scrape the painting away to get enough actual  material to date and this would damage the images,
maybe a problem that at the moment cannot be solved?
They did say that in other parts of the cave very much younger paintings and artifacts had been found.
The reasons they gave for a Neanderthal involvement, was that completely modern man was apparently not known in Spain 40,000 years ago, Neaderthals were there then and apparently they hunted seals, rather thin evidence so far, I admit.
 

droid

Active member
If it's true then it's a biggie.

Neanderthals weren't famous for their innovation, their tools remained largely the same for many thousands of years.

 

rhychydwr1

Active member
whitelackington said:
O.K. but I do not read Spanish but I know someone who does, Miguel one of the MCG blokes I dig with at Battery Swallet.
I gathered from the Daily Mail article that nearby organic material had been Carbon dated to plus 40,000 years but they said the paintings of the seals had not yet been dated (partly because of money) but also you have to scrape the painting away to get enough actual  material to date and this would damage the images,
maybe a problem that at the moment cannot be solved?
They did say that in other parts of the cave very much younger paintings and artifacts had been found.
The reasons they gave for a Neanderthal involvement, was that completely modern man was apparently not known in Spain 40,000 years ago, Neaderthals were there then and apparently they hunted seals, rather thin evidence so far, I admit.

Rock Art





Vamos amigo

La Cueva de Nerja is one of the richest deposits of southern peninsular prehistoric art forms, as it has 589 reasons grouped in 321 groups cataloged parietal painting and prints in two large groups, the Upper Paleolithic and Late Prehistory. The rock art of the cavity can not be visited by the public for conservation reasons.

The distribution of this pictorial heritage extends from the inlet to about half the longitudinal development of cavernamiento, which reaches 4,823 meters. The prehistoric artists used more profusely Galleries Tourist although there are relevant representations in the upper galleries.

Paleolithic art can be grouped into two major reasons assigned by style and in any case, absolute chronology, the Solutrean and the Magdalenian. The first would include a chronology between 20,000 and 16,000 years ago. The date of 19,900 years marks the beginning of this first stage of painting, according to a dating ( 14 C-AMS) carried out on a piece of coal used to paint a deer located in the upper galleries. The second set could be located around 12,000 years ago.

The most common artistic technique in the cavity is painting, with a record of colors ranging from red to black, especially the first being the one that shows the greatest variety of shades. Application methods were an indirect, with fingers, stylus or even brush.

Among the species of animals are represented horses, deer, goats, seals and birds, accompanied by a large batch of signs (points, lines ...).

The rock art ascribed to episodes of Prehistory technique show marked diversity of styles and grouped into four blocks: Typical schematic paintings, prints, schematics, 'Black paint type The Pool' and a set of 'Bowls', which might have to add some of the demonstrations on ceramic support found in the cavity.

The first group is disposed in the base monument made human figures in red, with strong links to funeral rituals, according to the correlations detected in other archeological sites and their coincidence in time with the height of the cavity using as a necropolis. 

The prints bitriangulares schematic, attached to the Chalcolithic from their resemblance to those manufactured in ceramic support during this time, could correspond to possible representations of female deities.

A set of black motifs similar to those found at other sites, which belong to what has come to be called 'Black paint type The Pool', dated around the end of the third millennium BC Other symbolic manifestations of this period are those made on ceramics, among which a human torso. 

Finally, the set of 'Bowls' corresponds to a block of very unique, circular erosions pierce columns or other speleothems using the technique of staking. Their membership is determined by a prehistoric specimen Chalcolithic covered by sediments.

Early work on the paintings of the Cueva de Nerja were made by the Delegation of Archaeological Excavations in the province of M?laga, led by D. Simeon Gim?nez Reyna, spreading the results of this early research through various publications (Gim?nez Reyna, 1961; (Gim?nez Reyna, 1962a and b). In this decade of the 60 saw the first description of pictorial motifs located, the photographed the realization of direct tracings, assignments cronoculturales, etc., but shortly after, studies on the rock art of the cavity are relegated to the background, giving priority to important sedimentary deposits of the cave.

In the decade of the 80 are reactivated rock art studies in the cavity. Ms. Lya Dams, if requested by the then Curator of the Cueva de Nerja, D. Only Pablo Zaldivar and the Director of the Museum of M?laga, D. Doors Rafael Tricas performed between 1979 and 1980, an inventory of rock art of the cave, then publish their results in the play "L'Art de la Grotte pal?olithique Nerja" (Dams, 1987) publication that Hispanics specialists not too agree. Subsequently, D. Jos? Luis Sanchidri?n Torti studied as part of his doctoral thesis, all the wealth of rock art in the Cave of Nerja, publishing his results in 1994 (Sanchidri?n, 1994). According to him, the rock art of the cavity is systematized in two sets, Palaeolithic (Solutrean and Magdalenian) and post-Paleolithic.

The Solutrean of Nerja sanctuary contains a large graphic record, 589 reasons, divided between the two key categories that shape the Paleolithic art: animals and signs, reaching the highest numbers ideomorphs with a rate of 93.6%, compared with zoomorphic at a rate of 6.4% (Sanchidri?n, 1994).

The wildlife group provides a small number of species, horses, cervids (deer and deer), Goats and a concurrent indeterminate quadrupeds. The designs include ideomorphs straight (parallel beams and paired fragments), curvilinear (simple concentric rings and ripples), cruciform scores (pairs of dots or lines), square, circular and an abundant phenomenon involving the direct application of lines and spots information on speleothems.

The construction of the sanctuary is done in a linear fashion along 400 meters of galleries, with a segmentation of the different topographic units show a thematic specialization. Thus, there are six central panels axial governed by the animal, made by the deer and incorporating two variants: horse doe-doe-species and other signs (Sanchidri?n, 1994).

There is a single composition Magdalenian, but full of symbolism, thematic originality and appropriateness to the support. It is located in the upper galleries, in a cubicle of about 2 m 2 , and contains six fish-divided into three panels that increase the number of items and complexity of the models, as we get deeper into the dressing room. The composition bears a sequence figurative balanced reflection of a temporary unit, technical and authoring, repeating in a narrow space very stereotypical prototypes that perhaps could be identified as seals, and should be put in relation to the collection of marine resources conducted by Magdalenian groups.

As for the rock art of the communities and societies in the Prehistory, there is a frieze of classical schematic painting done in red, representing two typical anthropomorphic patterns, recorded a couple of groups that shape the schematization of "idols" bitriangulares Chalcolithic, one with female sexual characteristics, a set of remains attached to the phenomenon of black paint type the underground swimming pool, whose elaborations are restricted to reasons unconnected with lines and lines interlaced unpretentious artistic and, finally, a set of cups , singular elements consisting of circular erosions on columns or other formations, carved with the technique of staking.
 
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