Jh Cartgate

adep

Member
I must have done Jh about 15 times, but on the last few trips I go along the Cartgate and down bitch pitch with a sense of foreboding and feel lucky each time I make it out without incident, I had a near miss on Bitch pitch years ago but didn't really bother me at the time but just lately I don't like the place, is it instinct or am I just going plain soft!! :cry:
 

hrock

New member
yes, this feeling in combination with the ?2 entrance in why i use titan as a way in to all the digging and other bits i do down there.

oh and i have 9mm ropes cut for titan so that does make things a little easier too.

dont get me wrong i would still do a trip down jh but i dont see the point in using it frequently as a way in and out, risk X exposure, scores too high for frequent use.

that and the puddle of worms at the bottom.

i took a sample of them and asked a friend to look at them i got an email back today,  see below.

"Its quite hard to tell without looking down a microscope because they are so small if they had any sort of mouth part I cant see it with naked eye.
I can tell you its not a parasitic worm. If it were it would either belong to monogeneans, tapeworms, roundworms or flukes and it doesnt fit any of these. (if you wiki these groups there is a picture and they are all starkly different to these cave worms- fat bodies etc).
The first thing that came to mind when I looked at them the other night was that they are tubifex worms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubifex_tubifex and having a look at them again today I think this is probably right."
 

Tangent_tracker

Active member
WHere are these 'worms' you speak about and were they a one off or are they pretty much there all the time??

hrock said:
yes, this feeling in combination with the ?2 entrance in why i use titan as a way in to all the digging and other bits i do down there.

oh and i have 9mm ropes cut for titan so that does make things a little easier too.

dont get me wrong i would still do a trip down jh but i dont see the point in using it frequently as a way in and out, risk X exposure, scores too high for frequent use.

that and the puddle of worms at the bottom.

i took a sample of them and asked a friend to look at them i got an email back today,  see below.

"Its quite hard to tell without looking down a microscope because they are so small if they had any sort of mouth part I cant see it with naked eye.
I can tell you its not a parasitic worm. If it were it would either belong to monogeneans, tapeworms, roundworms or flukes and it doesnt fit any of these. (if you wiki these groups there is a picture and they are all starkly different to these cave worms- fat bodies etc).
The first thing that came to mind when I looked at them the other night was that they are tubifex worms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubifex_tubifex and having a look at them again today I think this is probably right."
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I think they're down in the sewer - the Far Sump connection from the bottom of Leviathan. I get the impression it's collecting most of the surface filth from the farm, either animal or machinery-derived. I've noticed a stink of oil more than once on the final pitch down from the ledge or at the bottom. When we were repairing the bottom steps/retaining wall down to the connection last year, I had several looks at the standing water in the connection, and invariably it was brown, with an oily slick on top - never looked appealing.

That said, the route down from the surface for that filth could well be a different one than the main 'stream', as the water from the shaft eastwards generally doesn't look that bad, certainly not brown - it's often a little cloudy in the flooded sections of the cartgate, but I'd usually attributed that to massive amounts of dissoved calcite from the vein-floor, rather than anything dodgy. Also the Far Sump connection in relation to surface is not that close to the farmyard, so perhaps it's related to a small doline or shaft nearby? The nearest shaft is one we checked last year in the triangular field, and is totally backfilled and quite high up, so unlikely to be susceptible to surface run-off.
 

hrock

New member
yep the worms are from the first puddle from jh towards titan and the far sump extentions. there must be a good fue 1000 in there  they have been there for a while now but they have not always been there. 
 

pwhole

Well-known member
This is the water in the first section of the connection a year ago - as I mentioned, not very appealing:

_IGP2710.jpg


Actually, I wonder of it's the collapsed shaft next to the wall that's the cause? The one with the fence around it? If that's still slipping, a lot of water and sheep/cow shit could be running down it. That one's much closer to the area of interest too.
 

adep

Member
I recall a few years back there was actually a smell of cow shit in the connection area.

I went through a few weeks ago when it was virtually closed at the top, unfortunately like a dick i opened my mouth for some weird reason and havent felt right since, also seem to be mad hungry a lot of the time so i probably scooped some up worms and they are living off curry in my gut
 

Rob

Well-known member
Not the first time i've heard this. A trip at least 6 years ago i think i went through with Rob2 and JeffW from Suss, on a Western Highway digging trip. The connection was reet stinky at that time and they both got ill for a few days after...
 

adep

Member
Rob said:
Not the first time i've heard this. A trip at least 6 years ago i think i went through with Rob2 and JeffW from Suss, on a Western Highway digging trip. The connection was reet stinky at that time and they both got ill for a few days after...

Did they have there mouths open like me though!!
 

Tangent_tracker

Active member
hmmm are these worms quite active in any way, like swiming in figure 8 movements or wiggling etc?? Not sure I plan to go down there this side of next year but I am intrigued... Does sound like they are coming in from surface... If there are that many I can imagine it becoming quite putrid when they run out of food and start to decompose... :(
 

adep

Member
Tangent_tracker said:
hmmm are these worms quite active in any way, like swiming in figure 8 movements or wiggling etc?? Not sure I plan to go down there this side of next year but I am intrigued... Does sound like they are coming in from surface... If there are that many I can imagine it becoming quite putrid when they run out of food and start to decompose... :(

What differance does it make how they were swimming, does it identify the type of worm??
 

Dickie

Active member
Tubifex worms were / are a fixture in Swildon's 4 - apparently a "benefit" bestowed by having Cowsh Avens connect to the farmyard waste drain above!

Shows how many Mendip cavers read the Derbyshire thread.
 

Tangent_tracker

Active member
adep said:
Tangent_tracker said:
hmmm are these worms quite active in any way, like swiming in figure 8 movements or wiggling etc?? Not sure I plan to go down there this side of next year but I am intrigued... Does sound like they are coming in from surface... If there are that many I can imagine it becoming quite putrid when they run out of food and start to decompose... :(

What differance does it make how they were swimming, does it identify the type of worm??

It certainly helps yes!
 
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