How long have spits been around?

Subpopulus Hibernia

Subpopulus Hibernia

Active member
The trusty old Spit - when exactly did this come into use in the UK? I ask because we've come across a few of these recently in Ireland in caves where we don't think anyone's been to since the early 70s and are wondering if these would have been placed during the original early 70's exploration or if someone else has been to these caves in the meantime...

In this old Sid Perou film about Pippikin from 1976 you can see what appears to be a spit being placed (from about 20:20) - but were Spits well established at the time or were they cutting edge technology?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyGxRuByV1w
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
Subpopulus Hibernia said:
The trusty old Spit - when exactly did this come into use in the UK? I ask because we've come across a few of these recently in Ireland in caves where we don't think anyone's been to since the early 70s and are wondering if these would have been placed during the original early 70's exploration or if someone else has been to these caves in the meantime...
Click to expand...

We were using 1/4" Parba bolts around 1970 when we were pushing Growling and Spectacle. If I remember rightly, they were very similar to spits, but I am happy to be corrected.
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
The original manufacturer started in 1949, but they weren't its first product:
https://www.bunnysbolts.com/spit
 
Mark Wright

Mark Wright

Active member
The first anchor I placed was back in 1980 and it was an 8mm self drilling anchor, very similar to the one in the film clip. Everyone just referred to them as 'Self Drillers' in my club.

I always thought Spits were something different.

What were the ones that had to be broken off called? I heard about these but never actually saw one. 

Mark
 
blackshiver

blackshiver

Member
Langcliffe is of course correct, Parba were used well before Petzl started importing their self drilling anchors later in the 70?s.
We all used them until Dave (Elliot) started seeing the error of our ways and put in the Red Bolts. That step was visionary but got slated at the time if I remember rightly.....
 
F

Fishes

New member
The ones I first remember using were from Troll.

The hanger in the video looks like it could also have been a Troll design but there were probably other similar designs at the time. I still have a few of those hangers.
 
paul

paul

Moderator
Fishes said:
The ones I first remember using were from Troll.

The hanger in the video looks like it could also have been a Troll design but there were probably other similar designs at the time. I still have a few of those hangers.
Click to expand...

The hangers were made by Troll, but the threaded sleeve were still Spits. Correct?
 
Subpopulus Hibernia

Subpopulus Hibernia

Active member
langcliffe said:
We were using 1/4" Parba bolts around 1970 when we were pushing Growling and Spectacle. If I remember rightly, they were very similar to spits, but I am happy to be corrected.
Click to expand...

Interesting photo of the Parba bolts here - click through for a close-up.
https://verticalarchaeology.com/2015/06/18/ellis-brigham-catalog-1972-selected-pages/#jp-carousel-2887

Look a bit longer than the spit we know today. Also some of the older L-style hanger plates. There's still one of those hangars in place in Noon's Hole in Fermanagh - would have been placed around 74...

Also what type of bolts were the red spots? How were they placed and how were they better than the spit-type?
 
Brains

Brains

Well-known member
AFAIK red spot, or red eye bolts refer to a spit anchor placed through a patch of old red oversuit material, leaving a red circle round the spit to make it easier to find. This technique is described in Dave Elliot's "SRT" book, published in 1986 on p66.
Various red eye spits can still be found in various caves of the Peak and elsewhere.
There may be another meaning to red spot bolts that I am unaware of...
 
F

Fishes

New member
paul said:
The hangers were made by Troll, but the threaded sleeve were still Spits. Correct?
Click to expand...

Our driver and hangers were definitely made by Troll. I never heard the term Spit until the 1990's. We always called them self driving bolts and I'm pretty sure it was an industrial fixing that had been repurposed.
 
Subpopulus Hibernia

Subpopulus Hibernia

Active member
Brains said:
AFAIK red spot, or red eye bolts refer to a spit anchor placed through a patch of old red oversuit material, leaving a red circle round the spit to make it easier to find. This technique is described in Dave Elliot's "SRT" book, published in 1986 on p66.
Various red eye spits can still be found in various caves of the Peak and elsewhere.
There may be another meaning to red spot bolts that I am unaware of...
Click to expand...

;) amazing. I've seen them before in Ireland (there's some in Noons) and wondered what the little lip of fabric was for.

Was the idea that by making them more visible that people would be less inclined to miss them and place their own bolts, or was there some some additional factors behind using the fabric?
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
Subpopulus Hibernia said:
Was the idea that by making them more visible that people would be less inclined to miss them and place their own bolts, or was there some some additional factors behind using the fabric?
Click to expand...

They were mainly to make them more obvious, but Dave was also using them as a sign that it was one of his for his new SRT routes. I remember Wooding and myself using white plastic when we bolted Jockey Hole in the mid-1980s.
 
T

topcat

Active member
Am I right in thinking that some / all?? of the red eye spits are 10mm rather than the usual 8mm ?
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
I believe the spits are 12mm, whilst the bolts that fit are 8.
Click to expand...

That sounds right. I only had 8 mm bollards, rings, hangers etc. and never encountered a problem with them not fitting
 
Brains

Brains

Well-known member
Elliot's book says the SPITS (brand name for self drilling anchors) are 8mm in use throughout Europe (at the time of writing in '86, on p55)
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
Yep, they take 8mm bolts... Spits are described as 12mm in Andy Sparrow's "Complete Caving Manual" (& I just measured one for good measure!)
 
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