BCA Statement on Children & Young Persons

damian

Active member
Please distribute the following statement as widely as possible:

In order to clarify our position on the participation of children and young persons in caving the British Caving Association Council Meeting on 4th October adopted the following statement:

"The BCA is committed to removing barriers to participation for children and young persons who wish to start caving."

I am today writing to The Department for Culture, Media and Sport and the NSPCC making clear BCA's position in this respect and BCA is now launching a thorough review of the current Child Protection documents.

Damian Weare
BCA Secretary
9th October 2008
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Thought it was vaguely familiar:

"The British Mountaineering Council is committed to removing barriers to participation to anyone who wants to start climbing, hill walking or mountaineering."

Whatever the sport, the expression "committed to removing barriers..." begs the question:

What barriers (if any) are there which presently stop children from participating in [insert chosen sport]?

I can think of some access agreements which stipulate over 16s; would they count as a barrier? - I guess not since denying access to individual caves doesn't prevent access to caves, in general.

I'm hard pressed to think of any barriers. Can anyone think of one?

I'm not trolling. Just playing Devil's Advocate.
 

ian.p

Active member
firstly good stuff (y) definate positive move forward all credit to the BCA....
in reply to capn chris's post - yes quite a lot the main two as i see it are:
A. adult cavers not wanting to take young people caving for fear of being sued.
B. young people actualy being able to find a way in to the club system realy more dificult then you might think says i from experiance.
 

Rachel

Active member
Well done Damian.

In reply to the other posts, I would say that the main barrier for under 18s is lack of transport to gain access to caves and caving clubs. A parent would have to be very tolerant to sit in the car for 5 hours whilst little Johnny goes caving and incredibly trusting to let their teenage daughter hitch a lift to the cave with some bloke she met on an internet forum.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Good effort, BCA. I'm one of the people who is grateful for all the time that BCA officers put into keeping the ship afloat (in all sorts of ways). I know you'd rather spend your valuable time caving than dealing with government red tape; it's great that the caving world contains the sort of people who are prepared to put something back in.

We MUST have young people - or caving in the UK would ultimately be doomed.
 

menacer

Active member
Rachel said:
I would say that the main barrier for under 18s is lack of transport to gain access to caves and caving clubs. A parent would have to be very tolerant to sit in the car for 5 hours whilst little Johnny goes caving and incredibly trusting to let their teenage daughter hitch a lift to the cave with some bloke she met on an internet forum.

Whilst transport can be an issue (caves are inconveniantly located only in limestone areas   ::) ) This is not a political barrier merely one of choice.
In the early years of exploration in the uk, few of the cavers had cars, they were an unaffordable commodity. This is where caving clubs came into good effect.
I never had a car when I started caving....caught the bus to Wells, introduced myself to Jrat and said "I want to go caving".
He asked me where I lived, and aware of Wessex members who lived in that area put me in touch with PeteH on this forum...
The rest is history, I went up every wednesday night digging, then a few weekend trips. When Pete wasnt caving, I used public transport to Wells and then would hang around tonys shop for a lift onto the hill.....sometimes I would Hitch Hike.
Transport issues are really down to the motivation of the individual, also If you have no transport, joining a club where there are members living close to you is simply the way ahead...
With the internet and mobile phone technology around I think getting a lift to caving regions is getting easier not harder.
 
This is a small legalistic policy step by the BCA. Almost an admission that they are a barrier
themselves.

In the recent "try caving initiative" our club was interested in arranging trips suitable for children

The organisers would not countenance such a thought.

Our club regularly arranges children caving trips each year, admittedly the parents are usually present but not
always as some bring their friends. There is a definite skill in making these trips a success.

So when are the BCA going to have a "try caving intiative for children"?

Or is this yet another policy statement from the commitee?




 

menacer

Active member
dave_the_cave said:
In the recent "try caving initiative" our club was interested in arranging trips suitable for children
The organisers would not countenance such a thought.

Our club regularly arranges children caving trips each year, admittedly the parents are usually present but not
always as some bring their friends. There is a definite skill in making these trips a success.

Hi Dave...excuse my stupidity im a little unsure from the 2 statements above as to whether your club was sucessful or unsuccessful at organising the "try caving" for children.

Were any hurdles (if any) a result of poor policy?
What was the "skill" in making the trip a success...
Would/could you share these experiences with others.
Do you feel the recent BCA statement is going to help further trips or hinder??
(sorry my brains not working to full capacity due to night shifts.... )

Carm

 
Carm

I do not consider policy statements a measure of progress on making caving accessible to children.
When policy statements are required it is an indication that there is a long way to go.

Progress would be through caving events such as "try caving initiative for children".

Sorry if I included too many background facts in the original posts and ignored you other questions.

My question for the forum is will there be an event such as "try caving for children"?

Dave


 
M

MSD

Guest
Leadership of children in any outdoor activity is something that can be done with great skill. I've just been teaching a group of schoolteachers in Norway about outdoor leadership and I've been caving with them three days in a row. We had a lot of very interesting discussions and the students had a lot to contribute to the exercise. These teachers take their charges out into the wild and although of course this must be done safely, the rules and regulations are not suffocating, just sensible. The outdoors in Scandinavia is full of beautiful nature, doesn't have a paedophile hiding behind every bush and children have the kind of freedom which I believe they need and deserve. I'm very happy my children live here!

So for those of you still living in Britain....it's down to you! Get the message over to policy makers, head teachers etc. that children have the right to enjoy our national parks and outdoors....which includes caves of course. The BCA can make a policy statement, but change will only happen if people at the grass roots actually do something.

Mark
 

Hammy

Member
Several thousand children are introduced to caving each year, indirectly supported by the BCA through their Leadership and Instructional qualification schemes. The majority of these involve paying for the experience but there is also low cost provision through the Scouts for example.

I ran a 'Try Caving' day under the BCA initiative a year and a half ago and children of any reasonable age were welcome on my trips although in the event the majority of people who came along were adults, with just one youngster (a six year old) with his parent.

These above examples of visits to caves fall outside of the 'Club' system - Clubs by their very nature provide the barrier to the involvement of young people in caving.

I would contend that most young people just want to get on with going underground, not have to wade through the mindboggling mire of membership fees, insurance, proposers and seconders, initiation ceremonies, child protection arrangements, access agreements and club politics before they even get their wellies on!

 

graham

New member
Hammy said:
I would contend that most young people just want to get on with going underground, not have to wade through the mindboggling mire of membership fees, insurance, proposers and seconders, initiation ceremonies, child protection arrangements, access agreements and club politics before they even get their wellies on!
So how the bloody hell did most of the active cavers end up in clubs then?  :confused:
 

Hughie

Active member
Hammy said:
I would contend that most young people just want to get on with going underground, not have to wade through the mindboggling mire of membership fees, insurance, proposers and seconders, initiation ceremonies, child protection arrangements, access agreements and club politics before they even get their wellies on!

Must be a Northern thing  :confused:
There are several Mendip clubs that are easy access.
You generalise.
 

ttxela

New member
cap 'n chris said:
Thought it was vaguely familiar:

"The British Mountaineering Council is committed to removing barriers to participation to anyone who wants to start climbing, hill walking or mountaineering."

Whatever the sport, the expression "committed to removing barriers..." begs the question:

What barriers (if any) are there which presently stop children from participating in [insert chosen sport]?

I can think of some access agreements which stipulate over 16s; would they count as a barrier? - I guess not since denying access to individual caves doesn't prevent access to caves, in general.

I'm hard pressed to think of any barriers. Can anyone think of one?

I'm not trolling. Just playing Devil's Advocate.

If a representative from the BCA could come round and fit a new kitchen for Mrs T, re-grout the bathroom and fill my car with diesel they could effectively remove the barriers to participation for at least one youngster...... :hug:
 

graham

New member
Does this "removing barriers" stuff mean I can widen some of the squeezes that I can no longer manage?  :unsure:
 

pete h

New member
graham said:
Does this "removing barriers" stuff mean I can widen some of the squeezes that I can no longer manage?  :unsure:

No go on a diet Graham your trip into the Charterhouse extension is getting closer. :)
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Goalpost shuffling time looms.

The new paradigm is on the horizon, ostensibly arriving in October but kicking in next year; voluntary organisations are exempt from the ?64 per head fee but it'll still end up being a database containing about a quarter of the UK adult population; I'm guessing there will be costs associated with accessing the database (and a procedure for accessing it) and I also guess there will be penalties attendant upon categories of organisation that could, but fail to, access it in order to check people under their umbrella.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/04/government_database_volunteers/
 
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