modern computer survey programmes

exsumper

New member
I have recently restarted caving after 12 years, I have revived a few old projects of mine and want to know what is the best cave surveying software, or best standard. I am also thinking of buying a laptop to go along with this. When i stopped gps was a new thing and If I remember there were a few basic surveying programs about.
I would be most grateful for some advice on whats best  software/ laptop, to buy for this purpose.
regards
exsumper.
 

graham

New member
There is some very powerful stuff around now, some is easier to use than others.

Are you intending to do your data collection using familiar tape/compass/clino/paper techniques or super modern electronic methods?

How computer literate are you?
 

exsumper

New member
hi graham
fairly literate. data gathering would probably via traditional methods, but processing more modern.
regards
 

exsumper

New member
hi graham am around this weekend will be in hunters fri sat night or at the belfry, about time we had a chat.
regards
exsumper.
 

sluka

New member
exsumper said:
fairly literate. data gathering would probably via traditional methods, but processing more modern.

You may not find anything better then therion: therion.speleo.sk Check the wiki - projects page for examples of projects made in therion. The idea is not only to calculate the polygon and draw the map, but to archive all the data about particular cave and generate from this data many different outputs including different maps, atlas, 3D, export to GIS and much more.

Martin
 

graham

New member
I agree that therion is probably the best around at the moment, except possibly in terms of ease of use ...
 

sluka

New member
graham said:
I agree that therion is probably the best around at the moment, except possibly in terms of ease of use ...
All the data exception of 3D are in plain text. So anybody may program his own editor... It means the data will be readable and interpretable after long time too.

m.
 

graham

New member
sluka said:
graham said:
I agree that therion is probably the best around at the moment, except possibly in terms of ease of use ...
All the data exception of 3D are in plain text. So anybody may program his own editor... It means the data will be readable and interpretable after long time too.

m.

Don't disagree that it's an excellent piece of kit, but:

So anybody may program his own editor

Anybody?

Anybody with the requisite skills, sure. It reminds me of a conversation I had with another surveyor some time back, when I said "the trouble with these guys is that they don't really believe that anybody who cannot do command line programming should be allowed to use a computer".
 

sluka

New member
[quote Anybody?

Anybody with the requisite skills, sure. It reminds me of a conversation I had with another surveyor some time back, when I said "the trouble with these guys is that they don't really believe that anybody who cannot do command line programming should be allowed to use a computer".
[/quote]

You are right, but to program sophisticated and complicated GUI which will work on Windows, Linux, MacOSX and is free is not simple. There are very few possible solutions. The xtherion editor is a BIG compromise.

What could help much is a sort of a video tutorial explaining how to use it. But time...
 

Duncan Price

Active member
exsumper said:
I have recently restarted caving after 12 years, I have revived a few old projects of mine and want to know what is the best cave surveying software, or best standard. I am also thinking of buying a laptop to go along with this. When i stopped gps was a new thing and If I remember there were a few basic surveying programs about.
I would be most grateful for some advice on whats best software/ laptop, to buy for this purpose.
regards
exsumper.

Alex

I use SURVEX (www.survex.com) for processing data, getting into a machine readable form is pretty easy using either a spreadsheet or simple text editor.  SURVEX will run on pretty almost any computer.  I'm still in the compass/clino/tape camp but may have to go electronic with age as I struggle to read them now!

I'll catch up with you when we are borth next around.

Duncan
 

graham

New member
sluka said:
You are right, but to program sophisticated and complicated GUI which will work on Windows, Linux, MacOSX and is free is not simple. There are very few possible solutions. The xtherion editor is a BIG compromise.

What could help much is a sort of a video tutorial explaining how to use it. But time...

Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about your program, I think it is great and I think that has many advantages both in terms of the data storage and the output. All I am saying is that you should not be surprised that less computer literate cavers sometimes have difficulties in using such programs.
 

sluka

New member
graham said:
Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about your program,

No any problem, authors (Martin Budaj and Stacho Mudrak) and all users know about it. But...
 

graham

New member
Alex

Whatever tools you decide to use and whatever you manage to do, can I just add one request which I am sure will be echoed by all modern day cave surveyors:

Please ensure that your original data, all of it, numbers and drawings is safely secured in a reliable archive for the benefit of future users.
 

SamT

Moderator
I think Survex is probably the most popular package in use in the UK at the moment.

Therion (which I've not experienced yet) is probably the most sophisticated and may well end up taking over.

Am I right in thinking its not too hard to get raw Survex data into Therion format.

(I guess what Im saying is that if you put your data (compass/clino/tape/up/down/left/right) into an Excel spreadsheet format as a basic storage tool, It should then be easy to get it into what ever format is required by a specific program!
 

graham

New member
It's dead easy to transfer data from Survex format to Therion. Much of the syntax is the same.

But Sam, why keep data in a proprietary format like Excel when all you need is a very basic text file?
 

Leclused

Active member
In our club (sc Avalon) we use a simply kind of text-files for data gathering. These text-files are kept as archive.

Then we use a converter to make the required survey interface files.

More info can be found on our club website :

http://www.scavalon.be/avalonuk/software/convert.htm

BR

Dagobert (Sc Avalon)
Ps The credits for the program are all for our Chairman who made this program. He alse made a cave database which is very
    easy to use "Speleobase' http://www.scavalon.be/avalonuk/software/speleobase.htm
 

SamT

Moderator
graham said:
It's dead easy to transfer data from Survex format to Therion. Much of the syntax is the same.

But Sam, why keep data in a proprietary format like Excel when all you need is a very basic text file?

No mega reason, but its very easy to cut and paste columns of text (i.e. to swap the order of Clino/Compass/Tape etc)
 

sluka

New member
SamT said:
No mega reason, but its very easy to cut and paste columns of text (i.e. to swap the order of Clino/Compass/Tape etc)

Good program could be configured to save your order of Clino/Compass/Tape etc. just to save "spirit" of your surveying book. :)

Martin
 

graham

New member
Sam, Martin

Good programs can be configured to do all sorts of stuff, but if the program - and the OS that run it - are no longer around then the data is useless.

I'll give a cave survey program "for instance". if you take a data file from "Compass" and open it in a text editor, you get columns of data. What you may not get is the original data as Compass always converts it to its favoured format for storage, that means it'll be converted to degrees and feet, decimal feet, I think, but I'm not certain ...

I have talked with Larry about this, I'll bet most Compass users aren't even aware of it.
 

sluka

New member
graham said:
Good programs can be configured to do all sorts of stuff, but if the program - and the OS that run it - are no longer around then the data is useless.

And it is the reason Survex (and Therion) uses the plain text for data and configurable format, where each one survey leg could be in different order and each value on each line in different units. Just to copy the original book.

If the Survex will not be supported any more and instead of Linux, Windows and MacOSX there will be something else, there will be always the possibility to make another program, which will interprete the plain text data from Survex (or Therion).
 
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