I'm just back home from delivering a caving talk. At the end of the session (which incidentally went down very well with the audience) I was asked numerous questions, one of which was the most asked question on my YouTube channel, "Why do you do it?" I gave my usual answer which centres around the amazing adventures to be had, the beauty of the underground world, insatiable curiosity and true exploration, but just as I was finishing my phone vibrated and a YouTube comment appeared on the screen. I just had to read it out to the audience.

People who do this are unbelievably stupid. There?s plenty of caves that are large enough to walk in and not go too far. Why would you crawl though tight spaces like this when your just surrounded by mud and rock. They think it looks cool. Whilst other people think they look like idiots.

So now we all know, we are not cool, we are unbelievably stupid.  :-\

Yep, to be fair thats a pretty reasonable assessment  :-\ 

Oh yes!
Longwood Chaps by MCRA, on Flickr

I'm reminded once again of the XKCD cartoons about YouTube comments....

The people who are stupid are those who cannot see anymore in life than sitting in front of TV having their heads filled with shit.

royfellows said:

The people who are stupid are those who cannot see anymore in life than sitting in front of TV having their heads filled with shit.

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I couldn't agree more!

Then I happily consider myself stupid =)

Have to say I completely misunderstood the title of this thread.

There I was thinking it would be all about whether or not it's a good idea to wear a PVC oversuit and thick furry while exploring a strenuous dry cave in a hot climate...

Are cavers cool? Not as cool as they think they are. Not as stupid as the ignoramus comment you've quoted claims. In fact though, cavers want non-cavers to be ignorant. They want to seem cool and daring, like explorers. They want caving to seem a bit more dangerous than it really is. Your provocative videos are useful exhibits.

Most cavers are not explorers. They are tourists, and more and more commonly lust after virtual attention. Like other tourists their activities are investments toward social capital recieved in the form of online oohs and aahs and ridicule from the idiotic dregs.

I too have been asked, after speaking at events, why I go caving. My answers have changed a lot over time, beginning much like yours. Anymore I refuse to explain my reasons, instead allowing that we all have our own motivations, which is acceptable so long as we try to do no harm. Nonetheless, my own opinion is that caving to seem cool is wasteful and even harmful, so I make sure to check my own motivations by abstaining from social media and uninvited cave-related conversation.

Most cavers are not explorers. They are tourists, and more and more commonly lust after virtual attention. Like other tourists their activities are investments toward social capital recieved in the form of online oohs and aahs and ridicule from the idiotic dregs.

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Couldn?t disagree more. Without getting too deep (pun intended), for me ?exploration? is also about an internal journey or experience, not just about treading/crawling/thrutching where no one has before. I quite often visit places that I?ve been to previously, but the experience is different. No less valid.
As regards social capital (whatever that is) or virtual attention, I?m lucky enough to share the real thing from a great group of friends with whom I go underground. But if anyone wants to send hard cash, feel free.

Caving is definitely not cool. But that is why I love it. I always tell aspirants that no one can see you caving so there is no point in posing.

Kenilworth said:

Are cavers cool? Not as cool as they think they are. Not as stupid as the ignoramus comment you've quoted claims. In fact though, cavers want non-cavers to be ignorant. They want to seem cool and daring, like explorers. They want caving to seem a bit more dangerous than it really is. Your provocative videos are useful exhibits.

Most cavers are not explorers. They are tourists, and more and more commonly lust after virtual attention. Like other tourists their activities are investments toward social capital recieved in the form of online oohs and aahs and ridicule from the idiotic dregs.

I too have been asked, after speaking at events, why I go caving. My answers have changed a lot over time, beginning much like yours. Anymore I refuse to explain my reasons, instead allowing that we all have our own motivations, which is acceptable so long as we try to do no harm. Nonetheless, my own opinion is that caving to seem cool is wasteful and even harmful, so I make sure to check my own motivations by abstaining from social media and uninvited cave-related conversation.

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As someone who uploads the occasional youtube video (on a variety of subjects, not exclusively underground) the sort of opinions expressed here give me pause for thought. Am I an attention seeker desperate for the approval of strangers in order to get some sort of validation for an otherwise hollow and meaningless existence - well quite possibly I suppose, but then again I'm not entirely sure why sharing your experiences online arouses such strong feelings in some people (leaving aside perhaps the issue of publicising locations where access is sensitive).

One of the common themes of most peoples first writing experiences is to share with the class "Wot I did on my Holidays' people write trip reports for their club website or newsletter and some write books based on their exploits, the Youtube video or Facebook post is only really another form of this sort of communication surely?

Indeed your own post mentions that you speak at events - what motivates you to do this? Are you trying to impress the audience with your exploits or perhaps just wanting to impart some knowledge or share your enjoyment? If both you and your audience enjoy the experience at the the end of the day does it really matter?

How can it be cool if you go there after dark in the middle of nowhere where no one sees you.

Kenilworth said:

Most cavers are not explorers. They are tourists, and more and more commonly lust after virtual attention. Like other tourists their activities are investments toward social capital recieved in the form of online oohs and aahs and ridicule from the idiotic dregs.

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I'll quietly mention that one of the more attention-seeking behaviours is criticising other people, in an attempt to make oneself appear superior.

my own opinion is that caving to seem cool is wasteful and even harmful, so I make sure to check my own motivations by abstaining from social media and uninvited cave-related conversation.

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WHY DO I GO CAVING? THE FIRST RULE OF CAVE CLUB IS YOU DONT TALK ABOUT CAVE CLUB!

ttxela2 said:

Indeed your own post mentions that you speak at events - what motivates you to do this? Are you trying to impress the audience with your exploits or perhaps just wanting to impart some knowledge or share your enjoyment? If both you and your audience enjoy the experience at the the end of the day does it really matter?

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I have never tried to impress the audience because I've never thought caving was impressive. But I do admit that most of my efforts.to speak have been aimless. I do it when I'm asked and struggle to find anything meaningful to say. Ideally I would hope to inspire a measure of my own love for the land, but I simply haven't got a talent for that.

There is nothing wrong with sharing experiences, online or otherwise. The fact that social media have been an unprecedented means to indulge and nurture our innate narcissism simply leads me to distrust my own weakness.

Mike Hopley said:

Kenilworth said:

Most cavers are not explorers. They are tourists, and more and more commonly lust after virtual attention. Like other tourists their activities are investments toward social capital recieved in the form of online oohs and aahs and ridicule from the idiotic dregs.

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I'll quietly mention that one of the more attention-seeking behaviours is criticising other people, in an attempt to make oneself appear superior.

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It is clever then that you've "quietly mentioned" this instead of criticizing.
Am I attempting to seem superior to Keith? No. I am criticizing him. We are all equally deserving of criticism and owe it to ourselves and one another.

Exploration can surely be internal or involve much more than being in a place for the first time. Exloration must however involve careful observation and learning. Most cavers are not explorers.

Kenilworth said:

It is clever then that you've "quietly mentioned" this instead of criticizing.

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I "quietly mentioned" it because I have no intention of getting into a silly argument. It is obviously a criticism, but how one phrases criticism and its underlying intentions matter.

One might also consider the conversational context in which one chooses to air criticism. Is it relevant? Is it wanted by the other person?

(One shall now leave for tea with the Queen, for whom one has been practising one's posh-talk.)

'Criticism' is often thought of as negative.

It isn't. It's just someone's (hopefully) honest judgement/opinion. That can be seen as negative or positive but done carefully it's neutral.

The coolest thing a caver can do is facilitate and observe the revelation of something good to another.