cap n chris
Well-known member
Right, or wrong?
What is a BFC? Definitions*, please.
What is a BFC? Definitions*, please.
If you're not in a club, you're not a bona fide caver!
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
shortscotsman
New member
Wrong!
Bona Fide means "in good faith". It doesn't mean "undocumented" or "unregulated".
Bona Fide means "in good faith". It doesn't mean "undocumented" or "unregulated".
G
Graham.E
Guest
I assume this is just to wind up the masses, many persons who cave are 'Cavers' they do not have to be members of clubs to do so and are still 'bona fide'.
Simple one word answer to the statement 'B_____s'!!!!
Let's see the responses
Ancient caving git.
Peter Burgess
New member
A caver whose activities are carried out in good faith.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Is "someone who wants to be a better caver, who has caved, is caving and will continue to cave" a BFC?
Peter Burgess
New member
Not necessarily.cap 'n chris said:
shortscotsman
New member
Of course one could ask clubs such as SWCC what the working definition is since
access to Tooth Cave and Pant Mawr Pot is granted to ``any bona fide '' caver.
access to Tooth Cave and Pant Mawr Pot is granted to ``any bona fide '' caver.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Presumably, taking the definition of "good faith" above, the only person who can determine whether or not a caver is BF, is the person doing the caving - it is surely self-defining. If they claim to be acting in good faith (whether or not they are) then there is no denying their status?
graham
New member
Anyone who has the responsibility of, say, granting access to a delicate site, cannot be expected to do full background checks on everyone who might apply for access to that site*. Thus they usually use proxies. One proxy is to use recognised leaders to control the behaviour of individuals during the trip, as at DYO or OFD1. Another way is to use membership of a recognised club as a proxy, given that clubs are usually quite good at controlling their own membership as they do not wish bad behaviour to reflect more generally on them.
I see no problem with either of these methods.
*Unless, of course someone is hired specifically for this task, thus vastly increasing the cost of access for all.
I see no problem with either of these methods.
*Unless, of course someone is hired specifically for this task, thus vastly increasing the cost of access for all.
ttxela
New member
I've always understood "bona fide" in the way it is used now to mean genuine in some way. I suppose if you tried to pretend to be a caver to gain some sort of benefit, access to a club hut, discount in a shop or something without ever going caving or intending to then you wouldn't be a "bona fide" caver. :-\
Peter Burgess
New member
I wonder if the term bona fide is being misapplied here. It seems a more appropriate term for someone offering a service e.g. a bona fide financial adviser, one who provides his or her service in good faith, and does not have an overriding hidden agenda to serve him or herself preferentially.
A caver who is not bona fide is by this definition is pretending to be a caver for a hidden purpose, like someone coming onto this forum, making out they are caver, but acutally having a sinister reason for infiltrating the caving world.
A caver who is not bona fide is by this definition is pretending to be a caver for a hidden purpose, like someone coming onto this forum, making out they are caver, but acutally having a sinister reason for infiltrating the caving world.
Peter Burgess
New member
The term to use in connection with granting access should be trustworthy. Someone might have every intention of behaving responsibly, but may have a history of bad practice despite good intentions.
shortscotsman
New member
I think the term is commonly misused: "with bone fides" means having the documents to establish one's good faith.
A non-club caver could easily be a bona fide caver but not have bone fides
A non-club caver could easily be a bona fide caver but not have bone fides
Peter Burgess
New member
How long will it be before Chris provides the bigger picture behind his initial question?
whitelackington
New member
Wot like a bona fide member of parliamentPeter Burgess said:
one who selflessly acts for the good of his constituents but does not aim to increase his own wealth at the expense of the public,
like say Tony Blair.
C
Clive G
Guest
shortscotsman said:
bona fide - (i) real or genuine; (ii) undertaken in good faith;
(iii) a public house licensed to remain open after normal hours to serve
bona fide travellers (Irish, informal)
bona fides - good faith; honest intention (Law)
bone idle - a caver who has access to the internet but who can't spell bona fide . . .
[Collins Dictionary of the English Language]
From the above, perhaps the most likely definition of a 'bona fide caver' is 'a person who is licensed to stay open after normal hours, who has preferably caved in Ireland at least once'?
