Simon Beck
Member
I live just a few miles away from Mossdale caverns, but haven't got round to going in there quite yet, was wondering if anyone out there as visited the system recently?.
Mossdale caverns?
- Thread starter Simon Beck
- Start date
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George North
Guest
Probably not the best topic of conversation for a public forum - Access is still officially unallowed.
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cavewidow
Guest
As a Newbie I'd just like to say that George North could put you right off! Poor Simon, obviously enthusiastic, if naive, deserved a better first reply than this!
Out of interest, why is access denied? (another naive caver).
Out of interest, why is access denied? (another naive caver).
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cavewidow
Guest
Ooops. No offence intended. I'm new to all this & didn't reply to the issue so much as the curt reply by the regular. If I knew the area or had more experience of caving, I would have been aware of the situation at Mossdale.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
AndyF
New member
No problem. I wasn't having a go...
Mossdale holds a particular place is caving history, and the wishes of the landowner (as always!) should be respected. It is, essentialy, a grave.
Apart from anything else, it is a very dangerous place from a flooding point of view and best left alone.... My last comment was only meant to be advice, you really don't want to repeat this story...!
Mossdale holds a particular place is caving history, and the wishes of the landowner (as always!) should be respected. It is, essentialy, a grave.
Apart from anything else, it is a very dangerous place from a flooding point of view and best left alone.... My last comment was only meant to be advice, you really don't want to repeat this story...!
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cavewidow
Guest
O.k. Enough said. I just did a search myself actually but thank you for your input.
Rest assured, you won't find me anywhere near a cave that floods.
Rest assured, you won't find me anywhere near a cave that floods.
Cumbrian Neil
Member
Simon - I'm not sure how much caving you have done, but there are lots of other caves in the area that might whet your appetite. Dow Cave/Providence is just around the corner... as is Oddmire and Langcliffe (yes... I know access is dodgy there too). If you really want to look seriously at Mossdale Caverns you should take a look at the ULSA Journals.
Cavewidow - I doubt anyone expects you to know the ins and outs of every cave in the Dales... but I am surprised that you have never heard of the Mossdale tragedy. People are still visiting and exploring the cave as it possibly holds the key to breaking into the Great Scar Limestone and the extensive cave that exists behind Black and White Keld. Brian Judd's Cave Diving Pages at Brain Judd's Cave Diving Pages is a great site to take a look at some of the exploration done in this area.
CN.
Cavewidow - I doubt anyone expects you to know the ins and outs of every cave in the Dales... but I am surprised that you have never heard of the Mossdale tragedy. People are still visiting and exploring the cave as it possibly holds the key to breaking into the Great Scar Limestone and the extensive cave that exists behind Black and White Keld. Brian Judd's Cave Diving Pages at Brain Judd's Cave Diving Pages is a great site to take a look at some of the exploration done in this area.
CN.
Simon Beck
Member
This is for Neil!, I've lived in this area all my life, i am quite aware of the tragedy(and have been for a long time,even before becoming a caver), some of the blokes who were involved in the 67(uwfra members) tragedy i've actually known most of my life.I no idiot and am quite aware of the devastating effects which flooding would have on anyone present in the sytem. You mentioned a list of other caves, langcliffe(not completed trip to far reachs yet) Dowbergill passage thru trip(done already). I think its a little presumptuous to question peoples curiousity and call them naive etc...... some of us are just drawn to such places, YES! at some point in the future i will descend mossdale, but i'll make damn sure i go about as safely as i possibly can.
p.s 1 Hope no one took offence just getting my point across.
p.s2 I know for a fact that U.L.S.A have been entering the system for years.
p.s 1 Hope no one took offence just getting my point across.
p.s2 I know for a fact that U.L.S.A have been entering the system for years.
Cumbrian Neil
Member
SIMON BECK said:
Simon - If the quote above is directed toward me I do take offence to your "tone". I was offering a fellow caver some hints into some of the more interesting caves in your area. I didn't "question" your curiosity or call you "naive". Maybe you need to clarify who this particular quote is directed at.
CN.
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Yellerbelly
Guest
Well said CN. It appears that sections of the caving world are going to do their "thing" with little, or no, regard of land owners wishes or the tragic events of the past in their quest to "do" certain caves or caving trip. To offer any advice or "hints" seems to dent their egos for some reason.
This type of attitude not only puts their lives at risk, but also their fellow cavers called out rescue them.
This type of attitude not only puts their lives at risk, but also their fellow cavers called out rescue them.
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Yellerbelly
Guest
Well said CN. It appears that certain sections of the caving world are going to do their "thing" with little, or no, regard of land owners wishes or the tragic events of the past in their quest to "do" certain caves or caving trips. To offer any advice or "hints" seems to dent their egos for some reason.
This type of attitude not only puts their lives at risk, but also their fellow cavers called out rescue them.
Yellerbelly
This type of attitude not only puts their lives at risk, but also their fellow cavers called out rescue them.
Yellerbelly
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Yellerbelly
Guest
Just read Simon Beck's comments on Dowber Gill. Gungho or what?
Yellerbelly
Yellerbelly
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cavewidow
Guest
Apologies all round.
Simon, I assumed you were naive, which was my mistake being a completely naive newbie. I didn't mean to get you off on the wrong foot with other forum users. Believe it or not I was trying to be nice as no-one replied to my first posting so I thought I'd reply to yours. Ooops.
Neil, I think you'll find the quote was aimed at me but Simon was so annoyed by our assumption of his 'new to caving' status that he thought it was you. Ooops again. By the way, I don't know the ins & outs of any cave in the Dales yet but I think I'm starting to get the impression that I shouldn't bother.
Yellerbelly- who rattled your cage? I got the impression that Simon was quite a serious caver & just defending his own caving experience. Why do you think Simon is a rescue waiting to happen? Sometimes it the gungho attitude that gets results.
P.S George North, I feel you should get an apology too as I implied that you were hostile. You're not a patch on Neil & Yellerbelly.
AndyF, Thanks for your humanity. The proverbial light in the dark tunnel.
Simon, I assumed you were naive, which was my mistake being a completely naive newbie. I didn't mean to get you off on the wrong foot with other forum users. Believe it or not I was trying to be nice as no-one replied to my first posting so I thought I'd reply to yours. Ooops.
Neil, I think you'll find the quote was aimed at me but Simon was so annoyed by our assumption of his 'new to caving' status that he thought it was you. Ooops again. By the way, I don't know the ins & outs of any cave in the Dales yet but I think I'm starting to get the impression that I shouldn't bother.
Yellerbelly- who rattled your cage? I got the impression that Simon was quite a serious caver & just defending his own caving experience. Why do you think Simon is a rescue waiting to happen? Sometimes it the gungho attitude that gets results.
P.S George North, I feel you should get an apology too as I implied that you were hostile. You're not a patch on Neil & Yellerbelly.
AndyF, Thanks for your humanity. The proverbial light in the dark tunnel.
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Yellerbelly
Guest
Nobody has rattled my cage and I never said that Simon was a rescue waiting to happen nor casting any doubt on his or anyone's caving experience or skill. But these things do happen. so why increase the risk going into any cave that is known to flood rapidly.
Yes the gungho approach maybe does get results with exploration, but surely not with a cave known to be dangerous in flood conditions.
Cave Widow there are caves aplenty well worth a visit in the dales, so get on down!
Yes the gungho approach maybe does get results with exploration, but surely not with a cave known to be dangerous in flood conditions.
Cave Widow there are caves aplenty well worth a visit in the dales, so get on down!
Forigve me for asking but are you suggesting that people shouldn't descend caves that are very flood liable?
Would this attitude towards Mossdale exist if it wasn't for that tragedy? Or would people be discouraged from going into say, Goyden, if a similar tradegy had occured there?
Mossdale might be different, strange, "very" flood laible place but it has interest and massive potential.. Why wouldn't people want to visit it (apart from the obvious flooding threat and the fact theres a lot of crawling!).. As long as the weather is spot on then I can't see the problem.. Go for it Simon!
Andy Sparrow
Active member
Although Mossdale is officially closed it is effectively open for those that wish to go there. I have heard many reports of trips there over the last 30 years and I have vague recollections of reports in Descent about work done in the system so I don't think there is much of an issue about publicity. Most of the remains of the 6 dead cavers were buried in the High Level Mud Caverns but, be warned, not all.
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George North
Guest
Dear All,
Discussing gaining access to a site where access is banned on the internet strikes me as being rather stupid. (see the 'c**tplaces' forum for a good example.) Some things are surely best left to being discussed in the pub?
The fact that the cave in question is Mossdale, and there are a significant number of people who feel passionately that nobody should go down there certainly dosn't make things any better!
I also find it hard to believe that if the OP is serious about exploring Mossdale, that he dosn't know somebody who's been down there - but perhaps he does?
Well done to Cumbrian Neil for offering such constructive advice by the way.
Anyway, I'm off caving....
George.
Discussing gaining access to a site where access is banned on the internet strikes me as being rather stupid. (see the 'c**tplaces' forum for a good example.) Some things are surely best left to being discussed in the pub?
The fact that the cave in question is Mossdale, and there are a significant number of people who feel passionately that nobody should go down there certainly dosn't make things any better!
I also find it hard to believe that if the OP is serious about exploring Mossdale, that he dosn't know somebody who's been down there - but perhaps he does?
Well done to Cumbrian Neil for offering such constructive advice by the way.
Anyway, I'm off caving....
George.
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diggerdog adam
Guest
Chill Guys Chill :boz:
