Wetsuit construction

Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
The seams of most wetsuits these days seem to be put together by sewing a fabric tape onto one or both sides with four lines of stitching.  This creates four lines of holes through which cold water freely circulates.  I'm fed up of cold feet - does anyone know where I can buy a decent pair of wetsuit socks which are made is such a way that water doesn't circulate?  I don't care what they cost, I just want them to work.

Many cavers might not think this is a particular problem but on long wet trips (especially if a long sump is involved) this cheap and nasty method of making wetsuits significantly contributes to chilling.  Also I wouldn't ever want to get trapped in a cave for an extended period whilst wearing a suit made so stupidly.

So where can I buy a non leaky pair of wetsuit socks?  Thanks.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Because it cracks as it ages and then you get tears and because it reduces the stretchability of the seams, making torn neoprene more likely whilst dressing.  Also because it doesn't fully seal the holes as water creeps beneath it along the nylon lining.  And because when you buy something new it should damn well work without having to mess about bodging it!

So . . . can anyone answer the original question?  Thanks.
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
I don't think there is a better way of constructing wetsuits. "Blind Stitching" the neoprene is cr*p and rips to shreads in caves in no time. Taped and sewn through is much better.

Wetsuits/socks are not intended to be waterproof.

You need to wear thin silk socks under your wetsocks, this stops water that does get in from circulating and washing out again, and use three peice wetsocks that fit the foot without leaving airgaps to fill with water. two peice are cr*p

Andy
 
D

DCWB

Guest
Waterproof neoprene garments such as drysuits are made by joining the panels together by strobel stiching.  The two faces of the neoprene are glued together and then the linings are stiched together with a circular row of stiches at the front and a seperate row at the back.  The needle does not go through the panel.

This construction method is pointless for a wetsock as there is a big hole in the top so that you can put your foot in it.

Dive shops do sell thick (8mm plus) wetsuit socks that are are warmer than the standard 5mm caving sock. 

 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I'm sorry but I disagree with some of what both DCWB and Andy F have said above, as I have owned umpteen pairs of both kinds of neoprene socks and bitter experience convinces me that this cheap nasty method of construction which punctures the neoprene is significantly less good at keeping you warm.  I'm quite happy to have to replace the socks more often, even if the superior stitching method does wear faster (though of course it doesn't wear on the inside!).  I've already got some 8 mm socks and they don't fit in my wellies.  If the leg part of the neoprene sock is of resonable length, so it overlaps with your wetsuit trousers, then it doesn't leak very much (as was claimed above).

So, please can someone tell me where I can buy some decent wetsuit socks?!
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
I'll bet you that some of the windsurfing/surfing forums/websites will be well up on this type of thing. Not really aware fo which forums/sites are the UKc equivalent - but I bet there is one.
I used to have some wet suit sock/shoe things that were basically 3 piece wet suit socks dipped in some sort of rubber - so they were completely water proof when I used to windsurf. They went a bit Jelly like when full of water - but there was *no* flushing - and therefore toastie warm  (y) (I'll see if I can dig em out of the cellar to photo).
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks Sam - that's extremely helpful.

I think that a lot of the problem with commonly available neoprene garments found in caving shops is that a fair amount are imported from countries where labour is cheap; one might almost say easily exploitable. 

One or two of the lads in my club do a spot of surfing so when I next see them I'll ask.

Incidentally, I remember an occasion a few years ago when a certain NPC member arrived at the hut with a huge tin of a black rubber based compound called "Isoflex", intended for mending a leaky roof.  Someone suggested it might be good for repairing / strengthening drysuit feet, so about 6 of us slapped it on our drysuits liberally.  Only trouble was as it dried it exuded an almost unbearable stench, which had a half life of about 6 months.  It also shrank drysuit feet from size 10 to about size 6.  Bit of a disaster really.

Anyone else got any top tips on where to buy non leaking wetsuit socks?
 
graham

graham

New member
Pitlamp said:
I think that a lot of the problem with commonly available neoprene garments found in caving shops is that a fair amount are imported from countries where labour is cheap; one might almost say easily exploitable.
Click to expand...

What, like Glastonbury, where Warmbac suits are made?  :confused: :unsure:
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
DCWB seems to be the most knowledgeable person on this thread regarding construction techniques about wetsocks; however, it appears that it's not so much the construction method but having wet feet which seems to be Pitlamp's concern.

FWIW here's my 2p. Always buy wetsocks one size too large for your feet - that way you can slide them on and off MUCH easier. Have a pair of wellington boots one size too large for wet caving - that way you can get your neoprene-clad feet in and out of your wellies without having to yank your leg off to overcome the suction.

Get used to having wet feet in wet socks - the clue's in the name, I reckon. It's not having wet feet which is the problem for me, it's having COLD feet and when you've got neo socks on your feet get nice and warm, but remain wet.

BTW, buy the long sock type - they give a bit of extra shin padding and are easier to pull on and off.

Oh, and just in case you're wondering, Warmbac get my seal of approval `cos that's what I use. Get some and then decide for yourself....
 
W

wallop

Guest
Why don't you try some Palm Equipment wetsuit socks. They have some ti socks, which i find
very good, or the have some kevlar sole socks which are a bit thicker but are v.good aswell (y)
 
A

andymorgan

Guest
I get problems with bad circulation when it is cold: if I'm sat in a cold room with no shoes on, my feet go numb up to the calves. My hands have a similar problem. However when caving I use the long Warmbac wetsocks and don't get cold feet, although I do have normal socks under the wetsocks to prevent rubbing.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
For Captain Chris - nope, you're wrong.  It IS the construction method which is the problem.  Obviously wetsuit socks are intended to be wet.  The problem is the flushing of water through hundreds of unecessary holes.  I do long caving trips which might include a dive of 2 hours plus in cold northern waters.  During such trips the water which accumulates in wetsuit socks made properly is very warm  The water collecting in socks full of unecessary holes is always perishingly cold. 

I don't know if you dive Chris but if you do you'll realise that becoming seriously cold is dangerous because it adversely affects your ability to think properly underwater.  My diving wetsuits are fine - the problem is the wetsuit socks.

Graham - yes, I know that Kermit makes some good stuff near Mendip; I've known him for years.

Thanks to all those folks who have offered alternative ways of trying to get leaky seamed socks to be a bit warmer but that doesn't answer the original question.

Wallop - many thanks for your suggestion; I'll Google on it shortly.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
Sounds like you've got a pretty specific requirement for your wetsocks; considered asking around other divers to see what they recommend?

My advice was based on you being a normal caver, not a "mad" one.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I can assure you Chris, I'm perfectly sane - and in regular contact with all the main CDG players. 

Looked into surfing stuff as advised above.  The problem is that neoprene socks for surfers seem to have assorted coatings, straps, buckles etc, which makes them awkward to wear in wellies.

So I return to the original question: does anyone know where I can buy simple ordinary wetsuit socks (by mail order if necessary) with seams that don't leak?
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
All the cave divers I know are great cool sane people but for some reason cave diving/divers are still categorised under the "They must be mad" heading. I suppose it's a sign of the misinformation/misunderstanding going on by those who know nothing about it.
 
Roger W

Roger W

Well-known member
It's so easy to categorise as 'mad' or 'crazy' anyone who is prepared to go a little bit further down the road to insanity that you are yourself...

Some of my friends in England think I'm crazy 'cos I eat things like snakes and chicken's feet out here...  :yucky:

So when someone who enjoys wedging himself down tight muddy little holes in the ground and wearing his kneecaps out crawling for miles along 18" high passageways half full of cold water sees someone else who is prepared to go SCUBA diving in a narrow, water-filled tunnel where there is no surface to head for if anything goes wrong...  :doubt:

It's an honour to be considered mad by lesser mortals!  :alien: :alien: :alien:
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
Roger W said:
Some of my friends in England think I'm crazy 'cos I eat things like snakes and chicken's feet out here... 
Click to expand...

Depends what the options are, I suppose!..... I mean if you could choose between a sumptuous banquet or a handful of sticky rice and a stewed beak personally I'd go for the banquet. Bring it on!....
 
Roger W

Roger W

Well-known member
OK, Cap'n.  Just select a few dishes...

Dragon, tiger and phoenix soup (actually made from snake, domestic cat and chicken)
Dog meat  *
Donkey meat  *
Fried locusts  *
Rat  (in Guangdong, eating this is supposed to make your hair grow thick and black)
Lugworm soup  *
Lugworms in jelly  *
Fried snake *  (the more poisonous the snake's bite, the better the meat is supposed to be)
Stir fried frog with vegetables  *
Chili peppers fried with spices and bits of pork  *  (this is HOT)

To finish the meal off, a drink of distilled rice spirit with a few snakes and centipedes in the bottle to add a bit of 'body' and flavour.

I have personally sampled the ones marked with an *  as well as quite a few things I haven't been able to identify...  They all taste a lot better than your imagination would lead you to think... ;)


 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top