One from today. Thought it rather comical actually.

Nice clean looking warbac, hope it's not to stiffffff

Is it the camera angle or is that a huge rack!

In France I know several caves with ladders as access.

Grotte du Chaland for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYcyzOJtA_k  (as from 0:56)

Currently the first ladder has been removed to avoid non cavers to enter the cave. So you need a short rope to descend the first pitch (5m). After that 30m of ladders.

There is a more controversial side to this as younger cavers seem to want to use SRT rather than ladders. Indeed most professional courses lead them that way. That leaves us old ladder climbers feeling rather out of date. Oh I have bought all the SRT kit recently but have decided its not really quicker for the likes of me on relatively short pitches ( say 20m ). Is it safer ? Well you do usually only have the one rope and nasty things can happen. My mates rope popped of of his chest ascender recently. Is it really just a fixation with nice shiny new kit and a reluctance to look " old fashioned ". Then by another coin a ladder broke in a Mendip cave. Both sides went at the same time giving the climber a nasty fright . How many folk know how to lifeline correctly. I wonder if that is taught professionally. Can everyone here do an Italian hitch I wonder. Understandably you wont see ladders in the likes of Bar Pot again but then you may never see SRT on Swildons 20.

The Good Old Days ?

Alum Pot. c 1970.



Bar Pot c 1972.



Kingsdale. C 1975.



Lamb Leer c 1970.( no choice at all now )



Dont even mention fixed ladders today.

Fall Pot. Lancaster Hole c 1970.



Digital copies of slides which like me are gently fading away.

The thing with SRT is that its starting to end up like DIR ( Do It Right ) in diving. A rack, Petzyl Simple or Stop ? What sort of rope. Frog or another of the many methods. So many choices. The DIR brigade got really anal and would not pair up with another diver unless he was DIR also. It got all very silly regarding the kit fetish. I was about the only diver who used Heliair instead of Trimix. Never followed the crowd and still here ( just ).

Me all at sea and definitely not DIR.

The cave leader level 2 award uses ladders throughout the country (they have to be lifelined, although leader can use SRT themselves - where they don't want to be belayed by clients). Only cave instructors lead SRT professionally.

For a large group on short pitches then ladders require less kit to be carried. I have seen the 20 done on SRT, but I wouldn't recommend trying it in Sludge Pit!

Mike

I really don't get on with ladders.  I find them very physical, and scary when I see how I'm being belayed    [sticht plates used back to front, belayer stood forward and well down from the plate, body belays on 15 stone blokes {not me!}.

Very short ladders are ok I suppose, but carrying them is a pain.  I think the reason SRT has taken over is nothing to do with new shiny kit: it is simply easier and safer and thereby more pleasurable.  For me anyway.

Love the ageing pics Old Ruminator, especially the Kingsdale shot, classic! There's always been something for me, in seeing well travelled places, not just before I ever visited but before I was even born.

I fully agree with topcat; for good and sufficient reasons, we recently laddered the Dollytubs Pitch the 'old-fashioned' way, complete with double life-line . . . what a pain, what a faff.

And I agree with topcat about watching people 'lifelining'.

I seem to recall SRTing swildon's twenty I wondered why the hang drops down with the water rather than away from it, I guess it's a ladder/Mendip thing?

SRT is definitely safer though just look at how many historical falls have happened on ladders, compared to SRT. I think you will find based on statistics alone SRT is far safer and can also be done solo and still be safe unlike ladders.

However ladders still do have their place, namely on expeditions where you want to drop a load of holes in a day to see if they go, in this case they are perfect as you don't need to worry about rub so don't need 20 bolts to rig it safely and instead you just bung a couple of stakes in the ground and chuck the ladder down.

I find clanking round a cave with a load of bondage gear on me a pain. SRT is OK if you have big pitches and no change overs as it allows oldies like me to rest. Anything under 10m I would use a ladder. You go through the cave unencumbered except for a ladder you can toss around.

There are only 18 caves / mines in Mendip Underground that are rigged for SRT, with only a handful more that could easily be rejigged. There aren't many more in Portland, Devon & South Wales - a definite north / south divide in techniques...

Mike

I wonder if ladders are specifically better for current digging activities. It is a dilemma we have at the moment. Obviously the ladders are left rigged in the cave though I am also aware that it is not a good idea to leave them there for a long while. We left ladders in Reservoir Hole through our digging season of a few months. You may also have noticed that both pitches ( TFD and Ascension ) are split with a platform. There were reasons for that mostly regarding the avoidance of potentially dangerous areas. The top section of Ascension has a fixed ladder up to High Country. It seemed a good idea at the time though now such a " fixed aid " might be seen as unnecessary. Clearly with anything " fixed " there is a long term problem regarding keeping it serviceable.

Carrying what kit ? Long Churn - Alum Pot late 60's.

What is he wearing?

Sell Gill 1971.



Lost Johns c 1970.



Pant Mawr. Late 1960's.

mikem said:

What is he wearing?

Click to expand...

He is wearing his kit Mike. Maybe two ropes and a ladder. Apart from that who knows ?

Today's Mendip. Spider Hole 20m Pitch. Rigged for both ladder and SRT.



Lightweight camera gear. OR in Daren Cilau just after it's discovery.

There's that iconic photo of the descent (or ascent?) of the 175 foot final pitch of Juniper Gulf by ladder: I first saw it on page 27 of Bruce Bedford's "Underground Britain," but it's here on the forum at

https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16337.0