More questions on Bradwell Catchment

T pot 2

Active member
Anyone know where I can get information on the following

Hartle Dale Caves numbers 1 - 2 - and 3

Are there any photographs of the victorian Hartle Dale landscaped gardens ?

Apart from the SUSS explorations of the mines around Long Rake Founder Shaft in the 60's and the EPC stuff is there any thing in print about the two shafts that were at the west and east side of Batham Swallet ?

In the road close to the Yeld there is a manhole cover that access's a sough tail that was purportably entered in the late 60's early 70's
whom or what club would have the information,  if this was so.

Bagshawe Cavern had in the mid 70's an alternative ingress this was up hill from Bagshawe carpark and to get in you had to descend through the back window and out the front windscreen  holes of what I recall was a mini that was nose down blocking the shaft of which you were descending. This led to some extensive workings heading towards Outlands Head Quarry. Again is there any information out there.

Up on the hill just below and to the right of Outlands Head Quarry there is a shaft in a field that was the site of a fatality. This shaft reputabley connects with Moss Rake Sough any details available.

Just below Walkers farm at the top of Hartle Dale there used to be a small pumping engine at the side of a mine under the cliff does anyone remember this or know the details of the rift mine that it served?

On Moss Rake Alfred Eidson of Tideswell drove an adit from Moss Rake South Vein towards Moss Rake North vein (I think the terminology is correct) is there any information out there ?

When Eidson / Shatwell ran the site there used to be a draughting climbing shaft at the back of their fitting shop / garage did anyone descend this ?

At the right hand side of Hartle Dale Bottom Mine there is a draughting hole that on smoke testing does not connect with the mine has anyone any information on this.

Hartle Dale Bottom Mine was first entered by Medhurst and myself through a stope that opened up when the road for Moss Rake Quarry was being developed these stopes lead by various drops to a false floor that looked over to a large ledge on the far side of the engine shaft but because of the floor the ledge could not be gained hence the opening of the shaft top to get to the ledge, Off the ledge there is a vein stroke rift that has a kibble in it but would requir digging, the most interesting thing is  on the ledge is an old mans free hanging chain link ladder this was not followed at the time has anyone seen this or climbed up to where it goes ? also on the first trips into the place it was noted that there was some natural passage that wasn't explored due to the road being layed over the exposed stopes. Again has anyone looked at this?

If you stand at the top of Raddle Pits Shaft and look north there used to be a concrete slab about 20 metres away to the north does anyone know if its still there or have any information as to what the mine was called ?


T pot
 

cavermark

New member
One of the early SUSS journals had an article on explorations on Bradwell moor that included Crematorium pot and shafts A to F (I think) in the vicinity. One of these (A) looked interesting and dropped 90 feet on the same vein line as Batham Pot and Longrake FS but I think was maybe buried when the water main was put across the field.

I don't have the reference as I'm away at the moment sorry.
 

Big Jim

Member
T pot 2 said:
If you stand at the top of Raddle Pits Shaft and look north there used to be a concrete slab about 20 metres away to the north does anyone know if its still there or have any information as to what the mine was called ?

T, are you sure you don't mean the shaft that's probably about 50m N/W of Raddlepits that has a big concrete slab over the top? Its between Raddlepits and Moss Rake Head shaft. If you mean that one I cant remember the name but I believe Martyn Grayson dropped it a few years back during the time he was pushing stuff in Raddlepits. 

I'm sure you remember that myself and the Eavis' dropped Moss Rake head around the same time.

Me n Katie also had a butchers at Hartle Dale caves too with a view to digging but seem to recall we could only find 2 of the 3. Katie may remember with her younger, less cider addled mind  :confused:

J
 

pwhole

Well-known member
The slabbed shaft between Raddlepits and the boulder-covered shaft (more SW in reality) is also Rake Head - it was originally Hugh Hill Grove in the 18th C, when the adjoining (and competing) 'Mosrake Head' was owned by Joseph Clay. Little Rake branches off Moss Rake by the boulder shaft, and after crossing the farm wall it becomes Cop Rake. There was another engine shaft on this vein, now lost. The two mines were later consolidated and the bulk of the operations were concentrated at the Hugh Hill Grove shaft, as can be seen on the first OS maps when it was still working. I get the impression that Robert How Ashton, the mine owner, was steadily buying up all the larger mines in the area (Odin, Hazard, Pindale etc.), and keeping them open as long as humanly possible in order to keep local folks in work, possibly even running an effective 'care and maintenance' program at some.

A recently-unearthed photo from 1867, an additional shot taken on the same day as the famous 'team photo' at Rake Head is show below. Several figures are recognisable from the team photo, and judging by the hat, the guy at front looks to be George Ashmore, later killed at Wortley Mine, although it could just be Robert How Ashton, but he's wearing a short topper and tie, whereas Ashmore has a battered Bradda and neckerchief. Ashmore is the tall guy at the back in the team photo, and How Ashton is at the front with the 'headless dog' - this is also lying outside the coe on the top photo.

RakeHead_PW_ex_sm.jpg


RakeHead_Team_PW_ex_sm.jpg


The angle the photo is taken appears to be looking toward Brough/Hope Valley judging by the hills in the distance. The crushing stone is clearly visible, and the supporting beam for that appears to have been the seat for the front row of miners. The gin circle is also visible behind the wall with a double-pulley, suggesting a two-kibble system. Awesome stuff.

As wet-plate development was the only possible technique in 1867, the puzzle remains of where the photographer (probably Stephen Evans) actually developed the plates. Either the new slate-roofed coe at left could have been used as a rudimentary darkroom, he had a mobile blackout wagon onsite, or he legged it down to Bradwell at high speed to finish them. Emulsions were very time-sensitive in those days, and the wet plates were incredibly difficult to keep clean - also long-exposures were still the norm, so to get a 'casual' shot such as this under those conditions is astonishing - it must have been a very bright day. Timothy O' Sullivan was photographing the American civil war at the same time, and he had a wagon-based darkroom on the battlefield for high-speed processing.

Many thanks to the Derbyshire Pennine Club for letting me copy this from their archives. Sadly I can't provide a higher-res copy at present, and copyright is proving difficult to establish! However, I have spoken to an ancestor of the probable photographer, who originally gave the team photo print to Jim Rieuwerts, and she is happy for folks to see it.

Anyway, I digress. I have seen a small slab, effectively on the north side of the spoil heap at Raddlepits, but couldn't be sure if it was just laid on the ground, rather than covering something - I didn't want to just start digging holes at the time. The climbing shaft is almost certainly now buried in the spoil on the south side of the main trench. The slabbed shaft approx. 100m to the N of Raddlepits is, I believe, Blue Bell mine, also owned by the Middletons, and was forced upon them by the Barmaster in 1843 I think, after  he discovered they'd freed a new pipe vein from Raddlepits heading toward Brunt, but had neglected to mention it to the authorities! They got a strong ticking-off, and were made to open the new mine as they should have done. Very little else exists at present on any of this, but I'm working on it!

Postscript: - the juicy bits:

RakeHead_PW_crop_ex_sm.jpg
 

T pot 2

Active member
Phil

Blue Bell mine is the shaft that I have wanted to know the name of for years. This mine connects to Raddle Pits at a lower horizon than the cartgate via a pipe vein between the two. On the first descents into what we called moss rake mine at the time ( Pegasus 1974) there was a small winze off the lower cartgate that I and jarret descended and travelled between the two. Just before the winze on the left wall on a ledge were two clay pipes and two pewter drinking bottles, these disappeared to who knows where. It was on the third trip that I had my incident and had to spend some time incapacitated in a hospital ward. (B Bentham stated never whistle in mines - he was correct) The mineral rights prospector Jack Eidson  from Tideswell then on our next visit chased us off the site and no other trips took place for some years. Stuart Hadfield of Smalldale the land owner restricted access at later date for the whole of the rake. I became a good friend of Messer Eidson who gave permissions for access to Portaway and the rake up two Hollantwine mine and I and others descended shafts that are now sadly no longer there.
 

T pot 2

Active member
A long shot I know but who would be interested on having a social in order to put all the eggs in one basket on this topic?

T pot
 

braveduck

Active member
Moss Rake was been quarried in the early 1970s for Barite and Calcite we used to go on a summer evening collecting minerals.
Where the road from Bradwell crosses Moss Rake was their base and there was room to park there .
They were encountering shafts along the vein and filling them in to remove the nuisance and make opencasting safer.
On the Bradwell side of that crossing point was a very deep shaft (when we first went) and material was being brought from elsewhere to fill it .Tipped at the side and then bulldozed in .Down in Bradwell was a plastics factory making green garden hose .Large quantities of this and other industrial waste  was  being tipped by this shaft  for disposal.
So if ever you end up under there and encounter green garden hose you will know where you are ! ;)
 

pwhole

Well-known member
So that's what happened to Kitty Cross shaft then! All 137m of it - must have had a lot of waste. I heard that Shatwell tipped the back wheel of a digger down another shaft on the Upper Cross site as he was wrapping up a couple of years ago, so he filled that one in too. It's such a shame all this heritage is being lost, not least as most of the 'heritage' that's replaced it is vastly less interesting on every level, and I can't see it having much historical resonance for explorers 100 years into the future. Mind you, many of the old miners would probably be laughing their heads off if they knew what we got up to see their work, and the hours poring over their sketchy plans.

The panel of pickwork running 15m up the wall of Sidebottom's is beautiful, but it's hardly worth the effort what with the risk of crippling yourself and/or getting booted out just for a record snap. The exposed crosscuts that Jim R begged them to save got trashed in the end. It makes me shudder to think what must have got into the watercourses with tipping of plastic waste, or the damage the cave systems below may have endured. At least there shouldn't be any more crap going down any more.
 

Tripod

Member
Not Bradwell necessarily but I am reminded of what might have been tipped down mine shafts and into open workings in less enlightened times - and now if no-one is about. Some years ago on a trip around the Youlgreave area I saw what appeared to be asbestos at the side of an open rake/shaft on a rake and I have kicked myself ever since for not reporting it at the time. There could be a lot of very unpleasant material in old workings and in water courses.
 

AR

Well-known member
We might be lucky Phil, the tractor tyre might have jammed in the shaft near the top....

We are very lucky that Jim Rieuwerts got on well with Jack Eidson and was able to persuade him to avoid the Raddlepits shaft when he was opencasting the rake in that area!
 

T pot 2

Active member
I need to ask another question. How does the vein structure east from the Batham gate track along Moss Rake map out ? The veins are Moss Rake, Moss Rake North South Vein, Moss Rake South North vein, Moss rake Middle Part and Hartle Dale Part to name a few. Can anyone point me to a map delineating these boundaries.

T pot
 

AR

Well-known member
I think some of those are veins and some are titles, there may be a 6" Barmaster's map covering this area in the archives at Chatsworth?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
The Bradwell Barmaster's map I have only shows the Southfields section as two distinct, spaced-apart veins, with the northern title 'Portaway' and the southern one 'Co-op or Southfield'. This is the area immediately downhill from Outland Head and uphill from Bagshaw. From Bagshaw east to Wortley it's shown as two lines, but very close together. From Outland Head uphill to Batham Gate (Ripper, Windy, Bank Top, Hallams Venture, Sykes, Halls, Nether Cross), the vein line is either not drawn, or single. That's all I really have on the topic in that depth.

I once spoke to a mysterious old geezer on Moss Rake (as you do), who was pleased I was interested in mine remains and told me the same apocryphal tale others have heard, that in his grandad's day, you could walk from Bradwell to Peak Forest underground.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
. . . speaking of which, aren't there lots of mining remains on Oxlow Rake, heading off the back of Castleton Moor in the direction of Peak Forest? One never seems to hear much about folk doing any rooting about there but they certainly look interesting.
 

AR

Well-known member
I don't think there are many shafts still open on that rake; IIRC there are one or two at the Peak Forest end near the farm (probably full of rubbish...) , and there are some sleepered ones at Old Moor Mine I've never tried to properly look down.
 

nickwilliams

Well-known member
Zak spotted this one on (I think) Moss Rake. Does anyone recognise it?
 

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