Windy Knoll Cave

D

DARBY

Guest
Does anybody have any information of digging in windy Knoll. This may be a divvy question but is the mud choke Natural or tourist prevention. Reading the micro guide on pdc it talks about, not an unreasonable assoctiation with the fossil passages of peak and indeed the open end of white river. If so why has it never been paid more attention. There is also its situation above the valley leading down to Giants and the Swallet line of the p systems surely there must be something from such a cave with an entrance as impressive as that. Anybody with any info much appreciated
 
T

T pot 1

Guest
Did loads of work at the top of Corkscrew aven in Giants Hole back in the late eighties this was radio located to the dry dale heading up to Oxlow House farm
the location was marked with a wooden pegs & we were thirty mtrs below the surface
if you look at a survey of the area we were on the same joint line
who knows cos on the last digging trip up in the corkscrew we dropped one mega of a boulder
that even with a big bang you couldn't shift
be my guest and continue the dig but do keep in mind that when we went into aven four after the top of the Corkscrew and dropped the spoil down we had to spend 2 to 3 hours digging our way back into the Giants streamway to get out

T Pot
 
Mrs Trellis

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
I've always thought Windy Knoll was worth digging as it's a massive fossil swallet and "points" in the right direction of the presumed master cave. There are huge shakeholes in the fields over the road to to east on the presumed line and note that it's down-dip of the natural watershed - unlike the P series swallets.

The landowner is the NT I think and there is radioactive material (elaterite?) in the quarry iirc. Of course the entrance is now fenced off because of the roof collapse of Feb 2006.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Where there not some arch. digs in there - that uncovered allsorts of bones etc.

Im sure its a SSSI too - so it would be worth contacting English Nature (best via DCA) if you are going to consider digging there.

promising location though.
 
Mrs Trellis

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
Indeed - and was not the archaeologist the eponymous Dr Jackson? (c1900)

Iirc the whole cave was choked with glacial fill in which there were many Ice Age animal bones which now reside in the Buxton Museum. The general scenario was an active swallet in the interglacial where animals came to drink (and get high on the elaterite ;)?) and they were preyed upon by the local predators. Sounds a bit like the Castle to me.  8)
 
D

DARBY

Guest
eletarite what the hell is that and is it lightly to be dangerous to anybody digging in this area. Where is the presumed master cave meant to be or thought to be. The shakes, the one over the wall just before the head of the winnats pass road and the one above and to the right of the entrance are substantial and must point to something, need to get my head in some journals i think. Thanks for your help guys
 
Mrs Trellis

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
... er... put it this way - if the elaterite don't get you the radon will.  ;) At least you'll save money on caving lamps.

The master cave is due west of JH imho (probably ...er possibly... well, maybe) . White River is a much more probable destination.
 
D

DARBY

Guest
Quote from wiki Elaterite ( elaterite bituman ) or mineral caoutchouc is a brown hydro carbon found in Castleton Derbyshire and the Lead Mines Of odin. It does not say anything about radio activeness. Although come to think of it since my last visit to the said cave i have found that i no longer have to wear those reflective flavoured see in the dark jonnys anymore and i am growing an extra spine and triceretops fingers WHAT A BARGAIN.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.342673&lon=-1.80815&z=17.4&r=0&src=ggl

I think this aerial shot rather sumps it up nicely.

Tell me there isnt a cave in that hole in the field west of Winnats Head Farm.

(the source of the stream in Winnats Head cave per chance?)
 
D

DARBY

Guest
Hey up Sam i think your right and all seems to be coming from Windy Knoll (whats the guy like at winnats farm)
 
Brains

Brains

Well-known member
The problem with Elaterite is not radioactivity but rather being carcinogenic... Rumour has it that a PhD student working on the stuff lost his fingers to it. The hydrocarbons that formed elaterite (presumably from the shales) would also have caused the small (microscopic) inclusions (bubbles of liquid) in the fluorite mineral veins in this area that has caused the distinctive blue-yellow staining, forming the mineral variety Bluejohn (bleu-jeune from the french???)

AFAIK the farmer is amenable for a small fee, but the problem is going to be permission...
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
I know them quite well (well I went to school with the lads).

I keep meaning to ask them to go and have a nosey in that shake hole. (especially in wet weather) to see if it takes a stream like it looks.

If your intersted then let me know - and I'll try and hook something up. (though Im pretty busy at the moment)..

Like I say - might be better waiting for some prolonged wet weather to see what kind of stream it takes.

 
martinm

martinm

New member
Hi. The cave is within the Castleton SSSI.

You can see a SSSI boundary map here:- http://www.peakcavemonitoring.org.uk/content/view/17/22/

and a word doc for Windy Knoll Cave with a survey in it on this page:-
http://www.peakcavemonitoring.org.uk/content/view/3/3/
near the bottom.

Contact Jo Poll at Natural England to inquire about permission to dig at this site. Her contact details are on the home page of the web site.

Cheers,
Martin.
 
spikey

spikey

New member
According to the SSSI map, the old "sink" at Winnats Head Farm may not actually be within the boundaries, as the farm itself is excluded.
 
underground

underground

Active member
martinm said:
Hi. The cave is within the Castleton SSSI.

You can see a SSSI boundary map here:- http://www.peakcavemonitoring.org.uk/content/view/17/22/

and a word doc for Windy Knoll Cave with a survey in it on this page:-
http://www.peakcavemonitoring.org.uk/content/view/3/3/
near the bottom.

Contact Jo Poll at Natural England to inquire about permission to dig at this site. Her contact details are on the home page of the web site.

Cheers,
Martin.
Click to expand...

Blimey Martin, that's a cracking website - I didn't know owt about it! Is the report by Mesters Beck and Gunn on there that EN originally commissioned to inform the basis of the sites on the reporting forms?
 
martinm

martinm

New member
Thanks!

No, I've never seen it to be honest. I got involved a few years after the scheme had all been set up.

We're trying to move things on a bit now though, to include new discoveries like the new extensions in Waterways Swallet, Titan, etc. Natural England seem to prefer a static target. Easier to measure changes against that document, I guess.

It would be good to get somewhere like Owl Hole monitored under the scheme too, cos of the recent O.C.C. discoveries in there, and they've done a great job of looking after it since. (Must have a look sometime!) Course it's not in a SSSI, so Natural England don't seem so interested. (Not a statutory requirement for them.)

Feel free to use the surveys, etc. on the site. It's good to have a central place where everyone can find them. (And if you could complete a monitoring form after a trip that would be even better!)

Cheers,
Martin.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Agreed - great site martin

Why no survey for Dr Jacksons and Perryfoot.

Ive got one at home (photocopied from a really old COTPD) but its not hugely detailed (or up to date in fact).
 
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