"Yorkshire"?

Should the Derbyshire / Yorkshire area forums be renamed?

  • No, leave them as they are!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, change them to more detailed descriptions!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Just musing - I've always wondered why this area of the forum is headed "Yorkshire". Many of the best caves are actually in Cumbria, Lancashire, etc. (The "Three Counties System" springs to mind here.) Might it be better called "North West England" (as in that classic book from 1974: "Limestones And Caves Of North West England")?
 
D

darkplaces

Guest
While I cant answer for this ear forums admin with my own forum I thought about how to carve up the uk, in the end I decided to go by major motorways so north excluding scotland becomes anything above the M62.

Its a hard one trying to decide were borders should lie or just going for the current countys system (which are prone to change) I wonder if a cave system has a though trip were you can go in one county and out another?
 

Brains

Well-known member
Wasnt County Pot named for some reason like that? Was it the dig started in one county and ended up in another?
 

susie

New member
Brains said:
Wasnt County Pot named for some reason like that? Was it the dig started in one county and ended up in another?

Started in Lancashire, and finished up in Westmorland.
 

bubba

Administrator
pitlamp said:
Just musing - I've always wondered why this area of the forum is headed "Yorkshire". Many of the best caves are actually in Cumbria, Lancashire, etc. (The "Three Counties System" springs to mind here.) Might it be better called "North West England" (as in that classic book from 1974: "Limestones And Caves Of North West England")?

I can change it if required - it's just what (to my knowledge) the area has always been known as by most people I've met. I guess it stems from it being the Yorkshire Dales.

And to somebody in London, "North West England" might also mean the Peak so I'm not sure it's any more useful.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I've frequently heard people from Sheffield saying thay were going up to "Yorkshire" at the weekend (eh?!). Also, note that the guide "Caves of Derbyshire" has evolved (logically) into "Caves of The Peak District".

Whilst there might be a risk of "North West England" confusing some Londoners - describing Lancaster Hole (for example) as being in "Yorkshire" is definitely wrong!

I'm NOT criticising your excellent forum by the way; just highlighting a very common misconception (often among southern cavers) which maybe we shouldn't perpetuate?
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
I use a simpler categorisation:

S Wales (any cave in S Wales)
FoD (any cave in Fod)
Devon (ditto for Devon)
Mendip (ditto for here)
Derbyshire (any cave near Derbyshire)
Yorkshire (any cave near Yorkshire)
(Not in any particular order BTW).

Then, when describing somewhere more specific to someone, you can define a more accurate area by pin-pointing the site with relevance to somewhere else; i.e. on Mendip we might use Northern Mendip, Southern Flank, East or West or define a general location and then add other location names to pin-point a smaller area such as Ebbor Gorge (near Wookey), Burrington Combe, Priddy, Leigh-on-Mendip, Rookham or Cheddar Gorge. I imagine each caving region will have a similar defining method which will have more relevance to people living in that region with a better knowledge of micro-regional locations (which will not be much help to an outsider unfamiliar with the smaller locations) and so each region will have spokespeople who will highlight their own peculiar regional versions of the above outline for Mendip.

Speaking as a southerner who hasn't a clue about the geography of northern England, the generic term "Yorkshire" is very helpful to me; never having knowingly been to Sheffield, Cumbria or Lancashire these names are of no help to me since I don't actually know where they are but I do know that Yorkshire is a long drive to a cold land where there are very friendly people who drink in pubs which never shut and the caves are ace and the underground streams are freezing cold even in summer.
 

Brains

Well-known member
We should be careful here not to reignite the Wars of the Roses, in some areas there is a barely held ceasefire in operation :D , and to confuse Lancashire and Yorkshire could result in civil unrest or even ethnic cleansing :shock: ... The county names are very emotive, even if the boundaries are redrawn from whitehall, the proper locations are not forgotten :wink: ...
How about referring to this disputed border land as Three Peaks? Seems relatively innocuous and open to stretching a little...
 
F

Frog

Guest
why not call it
Yorkshire/Cumbria/Lancashire
as a lancastrian who has defected to yorkshire the order i have put these in has no significance!
 

dunc

New member
prehaps a simple change to "Yorkshire Dales". and "Peak District" would suffice
In the case of the Yorkshire Dales the park does not cover the Lancashire/Cumbia section (unless they do expand the park to cover those areas) so its just the same as using the term Yorkshire..

I tend to use the term Yorkshire or Y.Dales when I'm heading that way as its an easy term that people understand (more so non cavers and it saves explaining things over and over to them) even though I know some classic pots/caves are actually Lancashire/Cumbria!
 

dunc

New member
I wonder if a cave system has a though trip were you can go in one county and out another?
Theres a few, an example would be- Lancaster to Pip/Peterson/Mistral/Link/Bye George.
 
T

tubby two

Guest
I reckon if the caves that lie on the wrong side of border could choose which county to be in they'd all obviously want to be in gods own county? I mean, what self respecting cave wouldn't?
I'm not going to say which one gods own county is though.... but i think deep down, you all know!

tt.
 
A

andymorgan

Guest
The book 'Selected Caves of Britain and Ireland', has the 'Northern part' as Yorkshire. This nomenclature seems pretty standard when describing caving regions.
 

bubba

Administrator
There we go, I've converted it to a vote - please vote and after a week or so, I'll change or leave them accordingly.

Democracy in action ;)
 

newcastlecaver

New member
i don't see the point in changing the titles in the forum, everyone knows what is meant by 'yorkshire' and looks up trips and info on caves which are within or near the yorkshire area. People always refer to 'a yorkshire trip' How many people ever say that they are going on a cumbria/yorkshire/ lancashire trip this or that weekend!!? for simplicity it would be best to leave be, especially as any change would undoubtedly lead to a massive unnecessery debate about the locations of caves based on different entrances! what will be next? re publishing caving books and forum titles based on district council boundaries or similar.....?

(would just like to point out that I am one the the people I mention who is fuelling an unecessary but still interesting debate!)
 

dunc

New member
i don't see the point in changing the titles in the forum, everyone knows what is meant by 'yorkshire'
Indeed..

There we go, I've converted it to a vote - please vote and after a week or so, I'll change or leave them accordingly.
How about keeping the title as Yorkshire but changing the subtitle bit to say including Lancashire, Cumbria and the North West of England - or something along those lines - that way everyone is kept happy!
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Er - I would venture to suggest that all those who clearly know what is meant by "Yorkshire" - quite obviously don't!

However - I guess Bubba's vote idea is a fair one and I'm quite happy to go along with what everyone else wants. After all - he's the one who does the work of keeping this thing running smoothly (for which I'm grateful).
 
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