Graham Proudlove
Member
Please can someone let me know how many editions of Underground in Furness by Eric Holland there were and their publication dates.
Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,Graham
Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,Graham
Underground in Furness
- Thread starter Graham Proudlove
- Start date
Holland, E. G. (1960).
Underground in Furness: A Guide to the Geology, Mines, Potholes and Caves.
The Dalesman Publishing Company, Clapham, Via. Lancaster.71 pp., 6 maps
Holland, E. G. (1967).
Underground in Furness, South Westmorland and North Lancashire: Guide to the Geology, Mines, Caves and Potholes
. Dalesman PublishingCompany, Ltd., Clapham, via. Lancaster. 110 pp., 5 maps.
Underground in Furness: A Guide to the Geology, Mines, Potholes and Caves.
The Dalesman Publishing Company, Clapham, Via. Lancaster.71 pp., 6 maps
Holland, E. G. (1967).
Underground in Furness, South Westmorland and North Lancashire: Guide to the Geology, Mines, Caves and Potholes
. Dalesman PublishingCompany, Ltd., Clapham, via. Lancaster. 110 pp., 5 maps.
rhychydwr1
Active member
There is one on fleabay ?23
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201310376759?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201310376759?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
andys said:Tommy said:
I've poked around the area on numerous occasions. But then the wife found out and now I'm only allowed to poke around at home.
It's a common problem.
There's a sizeable resurgence of gin clear water at the bottom of the dry valley below Allithwaite at Bing map ref. 54.177352, -2.943323. There are two springs a few feet apart, one in an area of garden on the opposite side of the track to a new house and the other culverted beneath the house. Unfortunately, the chance of the owners of the land allowing hairy-arsed cavers to poke around with crowbars is slim. It's a pity because a considerable amount of Cumbria's finest reaches daylight here.
Tommy
Active member
For those with an interest in the region:
The BCRA are doing a field meeting on the 25th of April, "Exploring the Limestone Landscapes of Whitbarrow, Southern Lakeland".
Facebook event link: https://www.facebook.com/events/984529998243241/
If anyone happens to be driving from Sheffield-way, would a non-driving student be able to cadge a lift? :halo:
Graham, did you manage to get the information you need?
The BCRA are doing a field meeting on the 25th of April, "Exploring the Limestone Landscapes of Whitbarrow, Southern Lakeland".
Facebook event link: https://www.facebook.com/events/984529998243241/
If anyone happens to be driving from Sheffield-way, would a non-driving student be able to cadge a lift? :halo:
Graham, did you manage to get the information you need?
Graham Proudlove
Member
Yes, I now have what I needed, thanks for your interest. I got the 2nd ed. of UIF from the US.
Graham Proudlove
Graham Proudlove
Pitlamp said:
www.gridreferencefinder.com indicates the grid ref. SD 38521 76141 for the location. I hope this is accurate - the grid ref. finder site only displays a low quality road map. I couldn't see any open cave at the site and mentioned it in this forum only in case anyone is interested in the hydrology of the area.
BTW, no progress at Picklefoot but I'm still trying.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
With this kind of stuff, out of print, not out of copyright but of considerable general interest, is there any way of getting it available apart from the occasional ?32 EBay offering ?
andys
Well-known member
RobinGriffiths said:
Whilst I fully agree that UIF is of historical interest, the area covered by those volumes is included in Northern Caves, vol 3. So details of most of the sites, together with new sites located or further explored since its publication, are somewhat more accessible than in just those volumes. Though of course NC3 is not always easy to get hold of either.
RobinGriffiths said:
The BCRA or CaveMaps sites would be the obvious places for a scanned copy. Copyright lasts for 70 years after the writer's death but it might be possible to arrange something with the publishers?
I've just ordered a copy of UIF from Amazon for the usual ?30 as I'm struggling to find the known caves in the jungles around here and there's little useful info on tinternet.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Unless copyright was specifically signed over to the publishers (unusual - but perhaps worth asking?) copyright will almost certainly have remained with Eric Holland. I believe Eric passed away a number of years ago, so the copyright would have been regarded as part of his estate and so whoever holds copyright now will depend on who his beneficiaries were. That means asking family. In practice his family probably won't be especially interested in this copyright issue and identifying the person who has it may be difficult.
From time to time I've bumped into cavers who told me they knew Eric, so it's just possible that someone in the caving community may know members of his family. If anyone is seriously interested in pursuing this then a request for contacts via here may bring results? (But this is the sort of thing which is perhaps better done properly or not at all, so it's worth thinking carefully before proceeding.)
My understanding is that UIF contains information which the Northern Caves editors probably wouldn't include in full in the new Northern Caves guide. So perhaps the interest is more than merely historical (as suggested above) and maybe there is a good case for making these two excellent little books more generally available once again.
From time to time I've bumped into cavers who told me they knew Eric, so it's just possible that someone in the caving community may know members of his family. If anyone is seriously interested in pursuing this then a request for contacts via here may bring results? (But this is the sort of thing which is perhaps better done properly or not at all, so it's worth thinking carefully before proceeding.)
My understanding is that UIF contains information which the Northern Caves editors probably wouldn't include in full in the new Northern Caves guide. So perhaps the interest is more than merely historical (as suggested above) and maybe there is a good case for making these two excellent little books more generally available once again.
Graham Proudlove
Member
The second edition is quite explicit regarding copyright, it says "little c in a circle" Eric G. Holland 1960, 1967.
But, see the post near the beginning of this thread about an article by Max Moseley which suggests that some of the content of the second edition may actually have come from Peter Ashmead and/or others. The same article also says that the two "editions" are not really what we have as both are actually required if working in the area. I have not seen the 1960 edition so haven't cross checked them though the 1967 does have an index for both.
Sam and I discussed UIF in light of the fast progressing NC3 because I though that the previous NC3 may have missed out quite a lot of Furness caves. But after a check we think only one was missed. I need to do a little more work on this before I'm completely certain we have not missed more than one, and this recent traffic has made me get the books off the shelf and start a check.
But, see the post near the beginning of this thread about an article by Max Moseley which suggests that some of the content of the second edition may actually have come from Peter Ashmead and/or others. The same article also says that the two "editions" are not really what we have as both are actually required if working in the area. I have not seen the 1960 edition so haven't cross checked them though the 1967 does have an index for both.
Sam and I discussed UIF in light of the fast progressing NC3 because I though that the previous NC3 may have missed out quite a lot of Furness caves. But after a check we think only one was missed. I need to do a little more work on this before I'm completely certain we have not missed more than one, and this recent traffic has made me get the books off the shelf and start a check.
The Max Moseley article in full is at https://www.academia.edu/1687143/For_the_record_Underground_in_Furness
