I have been told that I would be better off putting my hand in a wasps nest.  Well he goes:


CAVE SURVEYS for sale:

Llanymynech Hill The Ogof [actually a copper mine] A4 no date £1.00
Ogof y Ci A3 1972 by I Statham £1.00
Grotte Favot  1975? Apres J J Garnier A4 £1.00
Ogod Dwy Sir 1998 A Fawcett A4 £1.00
Crescent Cave 2000 Brynmawr Caving Club and Mark Wilton-Jones A4 £1.00
Ogof Tarddiad Rhymni no date A4 £1.00
Llygad Llwchwr no date [1939?] A4 £1.00
Grotte du Bournillion ND topo GSV A4 £1.00
Reseau Christian-Gathier GS des Coulmes. 2 x A3 £2.00
Grotte de la Luire 1975 2 x A3 £2.00
Grotte de Gounier section SC Seine 1955 A3 £1.00
Grotte de Gounier plan  ND 2 x A3 £2.00

At least one of those is highly likely to be copyright somebody else & is not sold by that somebody else as a seperate item. If they find out that it is being copied and sold without consent I suspect that they will be extremely annoyed.

If they find out that it is being copied and sold without consent I suspect that they will be extremely annoyed.

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This is surely only a problem if it has been copied. If it has not been copied, but has been separated from whatever it was part of and sold on its own, then is that not OK?

As I don't know which one you are referring to, Graham, I will comment no further.

I have been told that I would be better off putting my hand in a wasps nest.

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If you want to sell original surveys (not unauthorised copies) then I cannot see what the problem is.

Peter Burgess said:

This is surely only a problem if it has been copied. If it has not been copied, but has been separated from whatever it was part of and sold on its own, then is that not OK?

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I'm sat in my office (one of my offices...) at work without a single example to hand in a language that I can read, but I'm sure a lot of books have some copyright stuff in the front saying something to the effect that the book shall not be sold (or re-sold?) in any other binding than that originally supplied...

F'rinstance, I think the publishers would not be happy if I took my paperback 1-volume copy of LOTR, split it into three sections, stuck a brown paper cover on each and sold them separately...

Does this have any bearing on the issue?

I was thinking more of something like an old BCRA transactions that I recall, that was wholly devoted to Dan yr Ogof, and included some surveys, which were part of the publication, but not physically attached to it, just inserted inside the front cover. It would be very easy for the survey and the journal to become separated, and some years later for the survey to be sold second hand on its own. Where's the harm in that?

Peter Burgess said:

I was thinking more of something like an old BCRA transactions that I recall, that was wholly devoted to Dan yr Ogof, and included some surveys, which were part of the publication, but not physically attached to it, just inserted inside the front cover. It would be very easy for the survey and the journal to become separated, and some years later for the survey to be sold second hand on its own. Where's the harm in that?

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That is the sort of thing that I assumed you had in mind and I doubt anyone woulod have a problem with that (especially considering that the survey was sold seperately  ). In the case that I am thinking of the survey was bound into the publication and has never been sold as a seperate item. This implies that it has been illicitly copied.

OK, but I could easily cut out a survey, stick it on the wall to admire it, lose the magazine, then sell the survey. Removing the survey with the intent to sell it, is not the same as having separated the two, and ended up selling the survey on its own some years later. I am not trying to defend illicit sales, merely indicating that there can be innocent explanations for what might superficially appear to be devious actions.

Peter Burgess said:

.... merely indicating that there can be innocent explanations for what might superficially appear to be devious actions.

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Which is why I have not dealt in specifics.  :halo:

Perhaps the starter of this thread, rhychydwr1, might come back in at some point and confirm that they're not copying and selling other people's copyright works without permission, but are in fact just clearing a few things from the attic...

Rhys

Rhys said:

Perhaps the starter of this thread, rhychydwr1, might come back in at some point and confirm that they're not copying and selling other people's copyright works without permission, but are in fact just clearing a few things from the attic...

Rhys

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I am certainly not copying other peoples' surveys.  I bought a pile of caving journals and the surveys were were with them.  I advertised the journals on UKCaving without any comment.  As mentioned in the start of this thread, I fear that I am sticking my hand in a wasps nest