i was talking to a non-caving friend the other day who liked the idea of caving, but who hated the idea of meeting bats so much that he would never consider going underground. the fact that i have never seen any bats in any caves, ever, did not convince him as he simply did not believe me.
i have two questions:
1. is this a common reaction to bats? and
2. why have i never seen any bats when i go caving (in yorkshire)?

I've met some bats in the caves under Symonds Yat in the Wye Valley but they were very nice, kep themselves to themselves and didn't suck my blood or get in my hair :wink:

Met bats in lots of caves - Yorkshire, Derbyshire, plenty in Mallorca. Often had to share narrowish passages with flying bats - recently in the traverse above the crabwalk in Giants.

But bats are much more careful than human beings. There's nothing to worry about - I've never been bumped into yet!!

The main thing is not to do anything that might disturb or upset them - especially if they are roosting (hanging upside-down, asleep).

The risk to humans from bats comes from infection of cuts from the guano - but guano isn't as big a problem over here as it is abroad. Now, there's a puzzle - is it the British Bat diet, do you think?

Never seen a bat in a cave this country. Lots outside our house when I was a kid. I dont think they tend to hang upside down in british caves (too cold) they like to tuck themselves away in tiny cracks away from draughts and moisture.

Your friend has nothing to worry about

:bat:

sorry - couldnt resist

:lool:

SamT said:

Never seen a bat in a cave this country. Lots outside our house when I was a kid. I dont think they tend to hang upside down in british caves (too cold) they like to tuck themselves away in tiny cracks away from draughts and moisture.

Your friend has nothing to worry about

:bat:

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Saw a bat flitting around a small chamber in Owl Hole (Derbyshire) recently.

You often see bats hibernating in some Welsh caves (Aggy, Draenen) - you can't miss the stupid ones which choose to roost on small rocks in the middle of the usual caver's routes!

Bats are unlikely to bother you - they try and avoid cavers if at all possible and awake.

Interesting topic, I find bats fascinating!

there is some interesting information regarding bats underground at www.bats.org.uk - click on bat information.

I have seen bats in numerous places eg: Waterways Swallet, Ecton Copper Mines & Brown Shaft.

Waterways is an interesting one, cos the entrance is covered by a metal lid forming a good seal, don't know where theyre are getting in?!?

I think that there are a suprising amount of bats in caves & mines, it's just rare that you see them unless you're lucky or looking for them.

I saw one in Damocles (Eldon Hole) once...

Loads of bats on (in) the Mendips. Particularly in the old mines or mine related caves. They don't bite though!!!

Of the 14-15 species of bat resident in UK all but two are myotid (i.e. they hide away in cracks & crevices so you would be very lucky indeed to see them on a "normal" caving trip). The remaining two which you see hanging around in caves are Lesser and Greater Horseshoe bats (both of which are endangered species and the colonies tend to be located in SW England and W Wales & W Ireland). In general bats presumably will tend to live where the weather is conducive to there being a plentiful supply of food (insects) and also where the weather is temperate - they're warm-blooded beasties, after all!

Of course all cavers acknowledge and respect the legislation protecting bats in this country and it is worthwhile pointing out to any potential new caver that the bats are probably more scared of us than we are of them (even if this isn't true it should help calm their nerves) and that bats' echolocation is so excellent that they'll fly straight past you without you probably even knowing about it.

I'm not sure if I can remember the UK resident species but I reckon they are: Brandt's, Daubenton's, Whiskered, Pipistrelle, Greater Horseshoe, Lesser Horseshoe, Barbastelle, Grey Long Eared, Brown Long Eared, Liesler's, Noctule, Serotine, Bechstein's, Natterer's (the Mouse-eared bat was considered extinct in the UK but I read a report this year which suggests they have been rediscovered here).

The lesser horseshoe bats which are commonly seen in caves in Mendip and S Wales are usually referred to as "cute" by most newbie cavers I've been with (especially if you tell them that they only weigh in at about 5+g - or the weight of a two pence piece).

I also recall reading somewhere that bats live for up to 30 years and hibernate once they have become pregnant/storing sperm (which is why you shouldn't disturb them whilst hibernating since they "abort" the sperm they are carrying) - apparently they only have one kid at a time and so it's important to maintain the gene pool by not upsetting any colonies. Greater horseshoe bat colonies are not uncommon on Mendip (but the locations are guarded) and they are quite an impressive size - up to 35g in weight with a 40cm wingspan).

Any bat specialists out there in caver-land who can add further to my limited understanding on this topic?

Aggy has loads (as in hundreds) of bats during hibernation season. Draenen has some but not as much as it once did (judging by the piles of shit, oops i mean guano, around the place!)

The bats ive seen are cute little fury things which look lice mice with wings, think people are scared because they have an image of huge bloodsucking beasts. Mind you i was a bit scared when i had one flying back and forth past me in Llanelly quarry pot (the tight bit so it was literally inches away from me)

And the reason for not having many in Yorkshire, i think, is to do with nature of the caves. Bats dont like drafty caves, and though ive never caved in Yorkshire (showcaves excluded) arent a lot of the caves vadose, i.e. immature and tight! Waterfalls and drafts and things are offputting to bats, they like nice still passages. Saying that i wouldnt of thought aggy entrance series would be a good place! Even seen one in the Daren Cilau crawl!

Perhaps it's best not to mention particular sites where large black moths may be found since if you do, the bat-botherers may end up slapping restriction orders on the caves so that us lovely hairy caver types can't go about our chosen sport anymore.

If you know there are some large black moths in a particular cave just keep an eye on them from one year to the next to see whether the colony is increasing in size, remaining the same or becoming diminished. The bat-botherers usually get on quite well with cavers since they at least recognise that we are doing a good job at keeping an eye on them and respecting their own "personal space".

If you know where there's a bat hibernaculum just say something like Aggy's got some black moths in it (or something similar)....

Tatty Wife has black moths then!

Huw Groucutt said:

Aggy has loads (as in hundreds) of buts

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Hur Hur Hur - He said butt. (in a beavis and butthead stylee.

no i didnt

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