a theory.....

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Andy Sparrow

Active member
No Mendip postings? We have to do something about that.....
Here is a theory about Rods Pot, Bath Swallet, Drunkards Hole and Avelines Hole. Those first three caves all hit an old big passage at the same depth. The passage would have been almost entirely sediment filled until vadose swallet water formed the three caves and intercepted this old phreatic trunk. This major passage seems to align pretty well with Avelines Hole which is only a few hundred metres away. I suspect it is the same passage that runs through all four caves. Also of interest is just how close the first three caves are to each other - if any caves on Mendip are ever likely to connect it has to be this trio. I'd love to see a really accurate cave and surface survey.....
 
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puppet

Guest
I was asking where are the locals in Priddy too - In the Hunters probably, and there is an intranet of course!
 
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Huw Groucutt

Guest
a better theory.....abandon the little Mendip holes and move to Wales, some real caves up there!
 
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andymorgan

Guest
Bit of a late reply...
Isn't Aveline's Hole considered to be an abandoned resurgence. If so it probably isn't associated with the three swallets, as the water would have flowed in the opposite direction - if you see what I mean.
There must be some major passage still to be discovered at the top swallets: is anyone digging them at the moment?
 
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Andy Sparrow

Active member
Isn't Aveline's Hole considered to be an abandoned resurgence. If so it probably isn't associated with the three swallets, as the water would have flowed in the opposite direction - if you see what I mean.
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Aveline's may have become a resurgence because the Combe (deepened by a surface river) breached an underlying passage. It is very likely to continue on the other side of the road and there is a definite hollow in the right place. I am not suggesting the swallets supplied water to the Avelines system but rather that the same geological weakness (a particular bedding plane) has been utilised by different systems at different time resulting in modern vadose connecting with ancient phreatic. This is not uncommon.
 
graham

graham

New member
Andy

First you missed out Bos Swallet from that list; secondly, you will find that Aubrey Newport is still digging in Bath Swallet; thirdly, the only one of the caves to have anything approaching a section of trunk passage is Bath Swallet & it doesn't seem to continue very far.

Up to date surveys of Bos & Drunkards are in UBSS Proceedings (Vol 21.1 & Vol 19.2), if you ask Tony Boycott, I think he and Estelle updated the Rod's survey a few years back. Aubrey & co. have surveyed Bath (so he told me last week) but haven't published it yet.

You are right that these are part of the same system but I would be very surprised if there was a single passage leading directly to Aveline's & even more surprised if there was a continuation on the other side of the combe.
 
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Andy Sparrow

Active member
the only one of the caves to have anything approaching a section of trunk passage is Bath Swallet & it doesn't seem to continue very far.
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You never noticed that Rod's Main Chamber is actually a section of phreatic passage? And that Drunkards intercepts a similar feature at the same depth? The trunk passage in Bath would probably extend considerably futher if the diggers had concentrated their efforts there instead of trying to follow the stream.

even more surprised if there was a continuation on the other side of the combe.
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why?
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
Surely the continuation on the other side of the combe is the comparatively narrow tube otherwise known as Aveline's?
 
graham

graham

New member
I said trunk not phreatic, the majority parts of all of those caves were formed under phreatic conditions, but that does not imply a single major conduit.

And to clarify what I meant about continuations - I meant I would be surprised to find a continuation of Aveline's on the eastern side of the Combe. Aveline's has certainly been truncated to an extent by enlargement of the Combe, but I doubt that it has cut it in half.
 
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Andy Sparrow

Active member
I said trunk not phreatic, the majority parts of all of those caves were formed under phreatic conditions, but that does not imply a single major conduit.
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OK. I would say that the larger sections of Rods Pot, Bath Swallet and possibly Drunkards Hole are sections of a single phreatic trunk passage.

The majority of these caves are not actually formed under phreatic conditions as you state. Actually there is a very simple rule that can be applied to these caves: All the down-dip aligned passages are vadose canyons. All the strike aligned passages are phreatic tubes.

Aveline's has certainly been truncated to an extent by enlargement of the Combe, but I doubt that it has cut it in half.
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And your reason for holding this opinion is.....?
 
graham

graham

New member
Why are you still ignoring Bos Swallet? Anyway, as to the formation of this lot I think Farrant's analysis in the Drunkard's paper in UBSS Proc 19.2 still holds good.

And why do I hold that opinion? Ongoing negative bloody great hole on the other side of the Combe situation.
 
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Andy Sparrow

Active member
are you still ignoring Bos Swallet?
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Because I have not done the cave and can't comment on it. These are the main factors which I think contribute to the hypothesis I have suggested:

1. There is a surface feature opposite Aveline's Hole which could indicate a continuation of the cave towards the Rod's Pot and the other caves. The distance is about 300 metres.

2. Rod's, Drunkards and Bath must be formed on the same bed or closely adjacent beds. They all intercept large strike aligned fossil passage at a similar depth. It seems unlikely, in view of their proximity to each other, that these are not sections of one major passage.

3. Farrant's analysis does not, as I recall it, preclude a common trunk passage connecting the three caves.

4. The three cave entrances seemed to be aligned towards Aveline's. If the entrances are formed along one bedding plane this alignment could be significant.

5. The relationships between these caves are of considerable interest (to me anyway). An accurate combined survey of the three caves would be useful to further consider the speleogenesis; it would also facilitate the linking of the caves by digging.
 
graham

graham

New member
Andy

Tell you what, you survey Bath Swallet & I'll supply the Bos & Drunkard's surveys & lean on Boycott for the updated Rod's survey. & then we can see where they all are.
 
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