"That" slogan - a suggestion

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Dear caving colleagues,

I've spent quite a while today pondering on a possible way forward over that stumbling bock of the slogan regarding the recent conservation initiative. The originators clearly still like it - and admittedly it's probably done loads of good in many intangible ways. Many other experienced cavers have reservations about the "doubt" aspect however - and these reservations are not going to go away. I'd not want it to - but this concern could start to have adverse effects on the main aims of the scheme.

As is often the case in such situations, maybe a slight compromise would be the way forwards? I've tried to come up with the most minor of tweaks to the original slogan. How about, simply:

Rubbish lying about? Bring it out!

This looks so similar to the original version I bet many folk wouldn't even notice. I honestly can't see how any reasonable caver could take issue with these six words. This would also leave the interpretation of what actually constitutes unwanted rubbish usefully open. We can carry on our wonderful discussions about just who has responsibility for verifying what is and isn't wanted separately on the forum and the slightly amended slogan could then stand unchallenged - so we can all get on with conservation work unhindered and with renewed vigour.

What's not to like? I have huge respect for my fellow cavers who came up with this scheme, for the very best of reasons. I'm keen that we find a way forwards so that everyone can throw their weight behind the initiative, unreservedly.

Finally - one plea. Some may still dislike the above idea, others may be willing to go along with it. But how about those with strong views maybe mull this over first? Perhaps sleep on it, before commenting either way?

Oh, one other "final" point - it may be that someone's already come up with these words and I've missed it in all the kerfuffle. If so, you have my humble apology.

Best wishes all.

 

Simon Wilson

New member
I haven't been defending the slogan because I like it. I have been arguing against those who object to it because I think the objections have been ridiculous and a totally OTT reaction to a few innocent words which is potentially undermining the scheme. Does anybody seriously think their precious drag tray is going to suddenly disappear? FFS

I also think there has been a slightly bullying approach by the gang objecting.

OK, it's not the best slogan but nobody has come up with a better one and people have got far too hung up about the single word 'doubt'. What matters is the spirit of the slogan and the simple message it is trying to convey. It could say, 'Dont hesitate, bring it out.' or 'Just do it, bring it out.'

Now can people please stop being so pathetic and shut up about the slogan. It's only a bloody slogan.
 

Inferus

New member
Simon Wilson said:
I haven't been defending the slogan because I like it. I have been arguing against those who object to it because I think the objections have been ridiculous and a totally OTT reaction to a few innocent words which is potentially undermining the scheme. Does anybody seriously think their precious drag tray is going to suddenly disappear? FFS
Undermining the scheme? I think not. If anything discussing the slogan and the whole conservation "thing" has well and truly brought it in to focus. Had the slogan been "perfect" in everyone's eyes then I doubt it would have generated as much interest, c'est la vie..

I also think there has been a slightly bullying approach by the gang objecting.
Bully-boy tactics used to be more prevalent on this forum, things have calmed down over recent times. A few well considered differing opinions does not constitute bullying. Or are we not allowed to disagree with the owners/mods/in-crowd??

OK, it's not the best slogan but nobody has come up with a better one'
There have been a few reasonable suggestions, I think the one above by Pitlamp is pretty good (apologies to Pitlamp for replying so soon but needs must).

Now can people please stop being so pathetic and shut up about the slogan. It's only a bloody slogan
Maybe when supporters of the slogan stop being so defensive of a slogan they percieve as perfect - it's only a bloody slogan and only someone else's bloody opinion!!
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Peter Burgess said:
Slogan for potential diggers -

Don't start it without a plan to finish it.

I quite agree - but that's ever so slightly off topic  ;)

For other folk; as I tried to suggest above - if it's "only" a slogan, couldn't you bring yourself to change it, just a little? All I'm trying to do is find a sensible way out of a situation that seems to be diverting attention away from the main aims of this excellent scheme.

Remember, we're all on the same "side" really.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
I plan to finish my present dig on Sunday 6th September 2015. I have the surveying gear cleaned and ready so we can survey the big new find. I need to get the detackling team organised so we can get the whole cave all cleaned up on the same day before the hordes descent who will surely want to see the new cave.
 

Over the Hill

New member
Cutting through the previous rhetoric and adding the number one rule of one Northern Club lets deal with two threads at once.

These being "What to take out" and "Slogans".

As a Yorkshireman I see we can we can kill these Two Bats with One Rock!

So in the North I recommend we reverse the the Local Government Act of 1972 as implemented in 1974.

Method and Slogan.  :read:

Clean a Cave in Yorkshire Dump yer dirt in Lancashire.

Done, dusted and put to bed. Simples.  :coffee:
 

Bottlebank

New member
As instructed I've had a good nights sleep before comment :sleep:

Cap'n Chris said:
:)

Any rubbish about? Bring it out!

I like Pitlamps suggestion, it sends the right message. Chris's variation is equally good. How about shortening both and simply using:

Rubbish About? Bring it Out!

As has been said at least this has got us talking about the campaign, maybe we can move on if this can be sorted and start talking about potential projects, for example.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Bottlebank said:
As instructed I've had a good nights sleep before comment :sleep:

Cap'n Chris said:
:)

Any rubbish about? Bring it out!

Reckon that's grand!  (y)

(Anything along these lines which omits the word "doubt" would be fine.)

Cookie - can you tweak that poll - the option you've included is slightly different from what Tony's suggesting above.

Also I'd like to change my vote to Tony's suggestion - if we aren't able to do that, should the poll start again?

I like Pitlamps suggestion, it sends the right message. Chris's variation is equally good. How about shortening both and simply using:

Rubbish About? Bring it Out!

As has been said at least this has got us talking about the campaign, maybe we can move on if this can be sorted and start talking about potential projects, for example.
 

Cookie

New member
Pitlamp said:
Cookie - can you tweak that poll - the option you've included is slightly different from what Tony's suggesting above.

Also I'd like to change my vote to Tony's suggestion - if we aren't able to do that, should the poll start again?

I've tweaked the poll.

The poll should allow a change of vote but I don't have the option. Moderator needed.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
Bottlebank said:
As instructed I've had a good nights sleep before comment :sleep:

Cap'n Chris said:
:)

Any rubbish about? Bring it out!

Reckon that's grand!  (y)

(Anything along these lines which omits the word "doubt" would be fine.)

Cookie - can you tweak that poll - the option you've included is slightly different from what Tony's suggesting above.

Also I'd like to change my vote to Tony's suggestion - if we aren't able to do that, should the poll start again?

I like Pitlamps suggestion, it sends the right message. Chris's variation is equally good. How about shortening both and simply using:

Rubbish About? Bring it Out!

As has been said at least this has got us talking about the campaign, maybe we can move on if this can be sorted and start talking about potential projects, for example.

Ah - I seem to have inadvertently inserted some text of mine into a post by Chris which I was quoting. So please can I apologise to Chris for this mistake?
 
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